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Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-16 06:21:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullock Brawn
Noctis needs love, after loot changes there are much better salvage options for mission running.

I've been trying to use it, but it just doesn't make sense any more for mission running at all, since there are so many superior choices for an alt when considering looting, salvage, damage and time.

The MTU and Loot nerf, has changed the game and the Noctis is obsolete.

Domi = Salvager II X 6 with RIGS, Drones 600DPS or more 650 cargo
Gnosis = Salvager II x 6 with 3 RIGS, Drones 400DPS or more. 900 Cargo

Bump Tractor range and give it Larger drone bay (50m3/50 Bandwidth) and make it at least usable.

The only bonus this ship has over ANY other ship now that the MTU and Loot changed things is.
Faster Salvaging access, but not any higher chance.

Am I missing something?
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#2 - 2014-08-16 07:06:06 UTC
Wrong forum.

And noctis is superior dedicated salvager to anything else. 8 t2 salvagers with 3 salvage t2 rigs = 80% of access difficulty bonus. MTU just makes salvaging more convenient by dragging wrecks into one nice ball.

Invalid signature format
Dave Stark
#3 - 2014-08-16 08:17:28 UTC
the mtu and salvage drones don't obsolete the noctis, they compliment it very well.

mtu and drones work from closest to farthest, noctis works farthest to closest. salvaging a mission takes mere moments.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#4 - 2014-08-16 16:09:36 UTC
Give it the ability to use bastion modules and to field a full rack of sentry drones. Add 3% per level for both armor and shield resists and double it's cap size. Give it a role bonus to be the only ship able to light a black ops cyno in high sec.

It would be barely useful, but I think a few guys would finaly train it up.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#5 - 2014-08-16 20:44:33 UTC
Shocked
Roll

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#6 - 2014-08-16 21:19:09 UTC
Noctis is still a very valid ship, like poster 2 said its an 80% chance to salvage with that setup, NO Other ship can get those stats. The MTU also did make it that much easier by drawing things into a ball where you dont have to do the running around. Sure i miss doing the run about because i treated managing the loot and salvaging operation like a mini game but all the same its still great.

Plus the noctis can still be very valid for people who dont have access to MTU's readily in deep null sec or WH Space if theirs are destroyed. And it can cloak where an MTU can't.

And in conclusion your theory about not justifiable because of the train time, is unjustified itself because the noctis doesnt even take more than 48 hours to sit in with decent skills. ( Especially with the T2 rigging changes )

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#7 - 2014-08-16 21:20:19 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Give it the ability to use bastion modules and to field a full rack of sentry drones. Add 3% per level for both armor and shield resists and double it's cap size. Give it a role bonus to be the only ship able to light a black ops cyno in high sec.

It would be barely useful, but I think a few guys would finaly train it up.


I thought i imagined that because i hadn't had my morning coffee yet.
I may need another cup to process that and come up with a witty response

O_o

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Justin Cody
War Firm
#8 - 2014-08-16 23:16:55 UTC
No to your suggestions but I could see adding more top end speed and a slight agility adjustment.
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2014-08-17 02:13:53 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
No to your suggestions but I could see adding more top end speed and a slight agility adjustment.


If you manage your targets well, there is no reason to move more than a small amount in the Noctis. At level 4 it can reach past 60km, and at level 5 it goes to 80km tractor range. Also you can just drop an MTU and it will grab anything that is outside your range.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#10 - 2014-08-17 02:35:06 UTC
You think that increasing the amount you can salvage would increase your profit from salvaging? That's interesting. And wrong, obviously.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2014-08-17 13:08:28 UTC
The Noctis is anything but obselete.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-08-18 17:43:42 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Wrong forum.

And noctis is superior dedicated salvager to anything else. 8 t2 salvagers with 3 salvage t2 rigs = 80% of access difficulty bonus. MTU just makes salvaging more convenient by dragging wrecks into one nice ball.

]

For an alt doing mission running, it no longer has a value to time/ISK due to the loot changes.

Using a Gnosis Battlecruiser is more effective since it can kill and salvage, seeing how you're not using the Tractor bonus.
The Gnosis has 6 highs (more than enough) and can put out 400DPS in drone damage with a 900m3 cargo hold.

That's why the Noctis really needs an upgrade, other ships just do it better for ISK value.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#13 - 2014-08-18 17:49:28 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Wrong forum.

And noctis is superior dedicated salvager to anything else. 8 t2 salvagers with 3 salvage t2 rigs = 80% of access difficulty bonus. MTU just makes salvaging more convenient by dragging wrecks into one nice ball.

]

For an alt doing mission running, it no longer has a value to time/ISK due to the loot changes.

Using a Gnosis Battlecruiser is more effective since it can kill and salvage, seeing how you're not using the Tractor bonus.
The Gnosis has 6 highs (more than enough) and can put out 400DPS in drone damage with a 900m3 cargo hold.

That's why the Noctis really needs an upgrade, other ships just do it better for ISK value.


One last point to make now that you said you wanted to close the post.

There is a limit of how many Gnosis exist in eve, but there will always be a Noctis because there are BPO's for them. So for now the Gnosis may be better ISK value but when there are just a few left and theyre 500m+ each wouldn't you want an 80m salvage boat named the Noctis that still does it better?

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#14 - 2014-08-18 17:53:52 UTC
[quote=Christopher Mabata

There is a limit of how many Gnosis exist in eve, but there will always be a Noctis because there are BPO's for them. So for now the Gnosis may be better ISK value but when there are just a few left and theyre 500m+ each wouldn't you want an 80m salvage boat named the Noctis that still does it better?[/quote]

Agreed that they're limited, but not used ATM with many available... very unlikely to change.

I opened it again, just because.... bought one and find it sort of worthless in practice.
stoicfaux
#15 - 2014-08-18 18:26:22 UTC
Noctis is only obsolete if the opportunity cost of doing something else (i.e. running another mission) is more profitable than making a Noctis run.

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Rabe Raptor
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#16 - 2014-08-18 18:27:45 UTC
I find 6 salvs and 2 tractors is fastest if you have an MTU... and it beats the heck out of anything else!

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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#17 - 2014-08-18 19:07:18 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Noctis is only obsolete if the opportunity cost of doing something else (i.e. running another mission) is more profitable than making a Noctis run.



The opportunity cost of running one mission vs salvaging 1 mission gives favor to the former.

The opportunity cost of running one mission vs salvaging 3 missions gives favor to the latter.

Noctis is awesome and needs no buff. I still prefer it to marauding but have been marauding lately because lazy. Nothing salvages and loots faster. You just have to have enough to make it worth it

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IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-08-18 19:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Noctis needs love, after loot changes there are much better salvage options for mission running.

I've been trying to use it, but it just doesn't make sense any more for mission running at all, since there are so many superior choices for an alt when considering looting, salvage, damage and time.

The MTU and Loot nerf, has changed the game and the Noctis is obsolete.

Domi = Salvager II X 6 with RIGS, Drones 600DPS or more 650 cargo
Gnosis = Salvager II x 6 with 3 RIGS, Drones 400DPS or more. 900 Cargo

Bump Tractor range and give it Larger drone bay (50m3/50 Bandwidth) and make it at least usable.



"there are so many superior choices".... What??? No other ship can loot and salvage faster than the Noctis...

MTU doesn't compete. It's very slow and doesn't salvage. Unless your DPS is terrible the MTU won't even be close to pulling in all the wrecks before you're done killing the last NPC.

It already has a 96 km tractor beam range... How much range do you want? I rarely have to move and with an AB or MWD this isn't really a problem

50 m3 drone bay and bandwidth... Why? It's not a combat ship and should come in when everything is dead. It originally never had a drone bay but one was added was so it can fit salvage drones.

The loot nerf has nothing to do with the Noctis specifically. It makes all looting less profitable no matter what ship you're using.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#19 - 2014-08-18 21:36:02 UTC
It's more a question now of who will actually use this ship in practical terms.

As an example... with two accounts how is this useful? Most serious mission runners have an alt.

Noctis As is for the Single or Dual boxer.
1) Two DPS Ships, and come back to salvage with Noctis on one account.. Other account goes to next misson = I've been doing it and it's just not worth it, only on the really big mssions that are in the same system as agent. Dual DPS boxing on missions is so much faster than One DPS and one Salvage, or going back for the Noctis isn't worth it.

So I bought a Gnosis and rigged it for Salvage and drones DPS, and just orbit the MTU on my alt and my Primary flies and aggros the room and brings them closer to the alt. Both accounts do the DPS and the alt salvages with 5 Salvager II's.

here's the fit for the alt
Lows = Drone Damage II x 3, Omni Tracking II x 2, DCU II x 1
Mids = Domination 10MN AB, Gistii A-Type SSB x 1, Invul II x 2, Navy Large SE x 2
Highs = Salvager II x 5, DLA 1 x 1
Rigs = Salvage Tackle II x 3
Drones - Cal Navy Vespa = over 300DPS, and kills all size ships well.

So far it's very fast and fun.... Where ever the missions take me, I'm effective and don't have to travel. Travel is the pain, I think.

The Noctis when I use it, is faster for just salvaging, but not considering the total mission and travel. It may be 20% faster, but it's almost instant for either ship. I don't believe there are dedicated Salvager Alts anymore either..Just no money in it.

I typically play for less than two hours at time and get 4 to 6 missions in, depending on which ones, total for both accounts.

The problem is ;; I think the Noctis can be useful again... Back in the day before the nerfs and the MTU, it was truly king, now it's broken. It needs more DPS at least...
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-08-18 21:41:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullock Brawn
Rabe Raptor wrote:
I find 6 salvs and 2 tractors is fastest if you have an MTU... and it beats the heck out of anything else!


The issue here I've found is the MTU just gets in the way, I'm tracking very fast and often it's got the one I'm trying to target.

If you use a MTU with a Noctis it seems counter to the value of the Noctis, and only use it due to the range, thus why I suggest making a Dedicated Salvager BETTER then an MTU... it shouldn't need one. So if you use one, you're dropping it from the DPS alt in the room first, so it's a why question?


If you're not going to make the ship useful for anything else, it should at least be the best at it, which now it lags. There is current fewer reasons to use the ship.
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