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API hacks with a counter?

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RegardIess
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-08-14 17:31:09 UTC
Chribba wrote:
The API was one of CCP most critical implementations and EVE wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today if they didn't implement the API, making the API provide fake information is a sure way to make it go downhill.

/c



So you are full on against siphons and their use if they influence API?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-08-14 18:19:59 UTC
RegardIess wrote:
Doesn't CCP making that information "bogus" (see siphon)open up the ability to maybe manipulate other things? Is it really bad if people stoppped using APIs? Why?


CCP is god in game term so they can bend the rules however they wish. The reason why they make the API lie is so you can't know there is a syphon unit on your tower but even that failed. The player were informed the API would lie in such exact case. If you can feed bogus information at will to the API, everybody will assume the information is wrong and stop using it because it's worthless. All the time sunk into building the architecture for it would be a complete waste.
Hevymetal
POT Corp
#23 - 2014-08-14 18:43:07 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Change your API Key?!?!?!?!?!


/thread

It's not rocket science. Don't give out info that you don't want others to have.
RegardIess
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-08-14 19:06:23 UTC
Hevymetal wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
Change your API Key?!?!?!?!?!


/thread

It's not rocket science. Don't give out info that you don't want others to have.


What about the ability of giving bad information to people you do want to have it? API makes it legit, seemly.

I understand your worry about one of the only "stable"decent systems CCP has put out in the years. I like many features of API, just a question in terms of one change(siphon), means possible more change in that area.

I think people rely on it, too much at times. Like the local channel in game. Does getting rid of it or changing it always mean terrible idea, next?

S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-08-14 19:39:10 UTC
Chribba wrote:
The API was one of CCP most critical implementations and EVE wouldn't be anywhere near where it is today if they didn't implement the API, making the API provide fake information is a sure way to make it go downhill.

/c

While I agree with the API being a good thing generally I do think it should have some limits (especially when CCP add things to the game like siphons which are rendered pointless by the information it provides).

As for where EvE is now, the fact almost every decent null corp wants full API keys means the main power blocks know virtually everything about all their members. This isn't a good thing for the game, in fact it reduces chances of conflict from spies gaining information etc. (sure spies still get around the API checks but it does drastically reduce the number of them). Back in the days of limited API's being standard the game was in a better place imo.

Personally I'd like to see the API have certain calls that are not changeable (character info, standings etc for things like eve-board), but also some calls that give variable results (like siphon filters). You shouldn't be able to get all information from the game without logging in - If someone has to log in to deploy a siphon, then the defender should have to log in to notice it.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-08-14 22:43:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RegardIess wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RegardIess wrote:
The API tool is used very widely by EVE to figure out different stats about a player, corp or alliance. With the addition of things like Siphon units (that should be lying to api) that mask the real intentions and data of the users api. Should there be other counters to the API tool?

EVE has always promoted piracy and overall sneakiness. Now most the time there has to be clueless person at the helm of a org to not check the API back n forth and have all the info they need.

What is the counter to this tactic? most will say "make a new toon". One shouldn't have to make a new toon to plunder and pillage with his character.

Is there ways to fake API information to lull someone into feeling safer? to pull off an agenda? If someone gets your API/full API are you done in terms of your shenanigans?

There are other ways of checking kill boards for AWOX etc, but what about a real counter to API information.


I am pretty sure it's meant to be one of the only pure truth about this game...


I can respect this aspect of it, but is it if CCP already try to "mask" it with siphoning?

Are API compilers a CCP technology or software by other people that compile the data and ccp just controls the raw data being released?



Pretty sure the API put the selected data available on the API server just as data and your app have to make the right call. Now I am pretty confused about what you want or protest against. Are you asking to be able to give bogus info through the API or stopping people from siphoning info through the API system?

If the former, I'm pretty sure CCP will never do it. It would kill the whole legetimacy of the whole API system if we could just feed it bogus info.

If you want your data to stay "confidential" then just kill the key you provided to people and make new ones when you need them.




Bolded and underlined the relevant part, that would be the best reason for doing it. API system is more trouble than it's worth. How did people manage before the API system, but they did.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2014-08-14 23:23:04 UTC
Grog Aftermath wrote:
API system is more trouble than it's worth. How did people manage before the API system, but they did.

That would be giving away useful information.

Seems in the future, that would become a pretty good advantage for having your own infrastructure, that... of course means those without will have to suffer. Nice.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Serene Repose
#28 - 2014-08-15 02:53:57 UTC
The Illuminati built a life-sized statue of Elvis Presley on the dark side of the moon.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-08-15 03:39:20 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
The Illuminati built a life-sized statue of Elvis Presley on the dark side of the moon.


If you break the statue, Elvis is there in cryo-hibernation.
RegardIess
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-08-15 13:47:13 UTC
Some very good point and a few terrible trying to be funny trolls. ha.

I think people get scared if you start removing the crutches they use in EVE.

I think a few are spot on, so what if API goes away we would deal with it, EVE did before.

I would say then there was even LESS thieves and in game crooks back then, as there are now.

I think being able to manipulate data in your own API should have some place in EVE. It will add more depth and things will be more mixed up. imagine having to actually be aware of your corp pilots action vs just reading API.

stop sleeping. your so comfortable in your EVE snuggy.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-08-15 13:52:06 UTC
I'll bite.

What would you like to lie about? Provide an example.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#32 - 2014-08-15 14:32:26 UTC
You don't "hack" the API. You make a web request to the CCP servers, including your api info into the address for some requests, and you get a text file back. That's all there is to it, you can even do it in your browser, like this:

Factional Warfare Top 100 Stats
https://api.eveonline.com/eve/FacWarTopStats.xml.aspx


It's not the API that is the problem with the Siphoning Units, it's the fact that CCP screwed up with their implementation of the item. In what way they screwed up is still debatable from what I last read.
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#33 - 2014-08-15 15:44:16 UTC
Look at all the people getting all bent out of shape over the mere mention of being able to deliver false info via a "hacked" API. It really puts into perspective who the carebears really are.

This game would benefit greatly with the removal of this system altogether.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#34 - 2014-08-15 15:47:12 UTC
Quote:
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

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