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Beating webs
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Dagrasel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-08-14 20:26:30 UTC
I haven't played for probably a good 3 years or so, and I recently came back to the game with an intent to try to start up pirating and PvP. I've got a few different types of ships already fitted out, with a blaster fit Thorax intended to be my "workhorse" ship, which seemed okay on paper but in practice I get **** on by anything that has a web. And it seems like practically everyone is running a web.

I don't typically go fast enough to keep a good range with just my AB going and I can't use MWD while webbed, so everything just flies circles around me at 5,000m and I miss until I eventually die. I'm running Valkyrie IIs but they don't make up for the huge loss of my own ship's damage and if I'm fighting against a cruiser of basically any kind I'm definitely going to be killed.

How do you counter web fits? Do you just fit a web of your own and hope you can keep them close enough?

I've ran into the same problem with using rails and projectile weapons as well. Webbed and then kept at arm's reach, or too close to be able to land hits. Maybe I'll stick to missile boats instead.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-08-14 20:36:22 UTC
Dagrasel wrote:
I haven't played for probably a good 3 years or so, and I recently came back to the game with an intent to try to start up pirating and PvP. I've got a few different types of ships already fitted out, with a blaster fit Thorax intended to be my "workhorse" ship, which seemed okay on paper but in practice I get **** on by anything that has a web. And it seems like practically everyone is running a web.

I don't typically go fast enough to keep a good range with just my AB going and I can't use MWD while webbed, so everything just flies circles around me at 5,000m and I miss until I eventually die. I'm running Valkyrie IIs but they don't make up for the huge loss of my own ship's damage and if I'm fighting against a cruiser of basically any kind I'm definitely going to be killed.

How do you counter web fits? Do you just fit a web of your own and hope you can keep them close enough?

I've ran into the same problem with using rails and projectile weapons as well. Webbed and then kept at arm's reach, or too close to be able to land hits. Maybe I'll stick to missile boats instead.



You CAN use a MWD while webbed. Whatyou cannot is use an MWD while scrammed.


A blaster boat is supposed to go balls deep and overhelm the target with superior firepower on 9 or 10 cases where it can win.

Also YOU need a web and a Scram. Your weapons are short range, so not using those would be bad on most cases.

The thorax shoudl jump into the throat and doing that it can defeat almost any cruiser (stupidly plated mallers might be a problem). IF you try to keep range then almost every cruiser will defeat you.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Dagrasel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-14 20:46:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Dagrasel
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dagrasel wrote:
I haven't played for probably a good 3 years or so, and I recently came back to the game with an intent to try to start up pirating and PvP. I've got a few different types of ships already fitted out, with a blaster fit Thorax intended to be my "workhorse" ship, which seemed okay on paper but in practice I get **** on by anything that has a web. And it seems like practically everyone is running a web.

I don't typically go fast enough to keep a good range with just my AB going and I can't use MWD while webbed, so everything just flies circles around me at 5,000m and I miss until I eventually die. I'm running Valkyrie IIs but they don't make up for the huge loss of my own ship's damage and if I'm fighting against a cruiser of basically any kind I'm definitely going to be killed.

How do you counter web fits? Do you just fit a web of your own and hope you can keep them close enough?

I've ran into the same problem with using rails and projectile weapons as well. Webbed and then kept at arm's reach, or too close to be able to land hits. Maybe I'll stick to missile boats instead.



You CAN use a MWD while webbed. Whatyou cannot is use an MWD while scrammed.


A blaster boat is supposed to go balls deep and overhelm the target with superior firepower on 9 or 10 cases where it can win.

Also YOU need a web and a Scram. Your weapons are short range, so not using those would be bad on most cases.

The thorax shoudl jump into the throat and doing that it can defeat almost any cruiser (stupidly plated mallers might be a problem). IF you try to keep range then almost every cruiser will defeat you.


I've got a J5b scram, 10MN AB II, and an Experimental 10MN MWD slotted for mids, with a cap booster. Should I remove the MWD for a web?

And yeah, I typo'd that sentence. I usually get either dual webbed or webbed and scrammed and outranged, though, so my MWD seems almost like a wasted slot. On the other hand, in the instance that I don't get scrammed, the MWD would be invaluable for gap closing.

Most recently I got killed by a Navy Exequeror in a dual in Jita, after getting webbed and scrammed and held at about 3500. He was orbiting too fast for my blasters to track him and I missed nearly every volley. That's how most of my experiences fighting other cruisers go.

And I'm pretty bad at PvP in general so far, it seems hard to get a footing when nearly every person is running a fit that counters what I use in nearly every way. I feel like I'm behind on information about what the new "META" is for PvPing because everything I try just simply doesn't work.
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#4 - 2014-08-14 22:46:10 UTC
Dagrasel wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dagrasel wrote:
I haven't played for probably a good 3 years or so, and I recently came back to the game with an intent to try to start up pirating and PvP. I've got a few different types of ships already fitted out, with a blaster fit Thorax intended to be my "workhorse" ship, which seemed okay on paper but in practice I get **** on by anything that has a web. And it seems like practically everyone is running a web.

I don't typically go fast enough to keep a good range with just my AB going and I can't use MWD while webbed, so everything just flies circles around me at 5,000m and I miss until I eventually die. I'm running Valkyrie IIs but they don't make up for the huge loss of my own ship's damage and if I'm fighting against a cruiser of basically any kind I'm definitely going to be killed.

How do you counter web fits? Do you just fit a web of your own and hope you can keep them close enough?

I've ran into the same problem with using rails and projectile weapons as well. Webbed and then kept at arm's reach, or too close to be able to land hits. Maybe I'll stick to missile boats instead.



You CAN use a MWD while webbed. Whatyou cannot is use an MWD while scrammed.


A blaster boat is supposed to go balls deep and overhelm the target with superior firepower on 9 or 10 cases where it can win.

Also YOU need a web and a Scram. Your weapons are short range, so not using those would be bad on most cases.

The thorax shoudl jump into the throat and doing that it can defeat almost any cruiser (stupidly plated mallers might be a problem). IF you try to keep range then almost every cruiser will defeat you.


I've got a J5b scram, 10MN AB II, and an Experimental 10MN MWD slotted for mids, with a cap booster. Should I remove the MWD for a web?

And yeah, I typo'd that sentence. I usually get either dual webbed or webbed and scrammed and outranged, though, so my MWD seems almost like a wasted slot. On the other hand, in the instance that I don't get scrammed, the MWD would be invaluable for gap closing.

Most recently I got killed by a Navy Exequeror in a dual in Jita, after getting webbed and scrammed and held at about 3500. He was orbiting too fast for my blasters to track him and I missed nearly every volley. That's how most of my experiences fighting other cruisers go.

And I'm pretty bad at PvP in general so far, it seems hard to get a footing when nearly every person is running a fit that counters what I use in nearly every way. I feel like I'm behind on information about what the new "META" is for PvPing because everything I try just simply doesn't work.

drop the ab for a web. once you get t2 blasters you can use null to hit anything that scram kites you. you honestly dont even need the cap booster unless you are dual rep. also, just fyi, the vexor gets more dps than the thorax. dual web and a 1600 plate with electrons and 2 ogres, 2 hammers, 1 hob and a dda is pretty standard
Dagrasel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-08-14 23:39:48 UTC
Shelom Severasse wrote:
Dagrasel wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Dagrasel wrote:
I haven't played for probably a good 3 years or so, and I recently came back to the game with an intent to try to start up pirating and PvP. I've got a few different types of ships already fitted out, with a blaster fit Thorax intended to be my "workhorse" ship, which seemed okay on paper but in practice I get **** on by anything that has a web. And it seems like practically everyone is running a web.

I don't typically go fast enough to keep a good range with just my AB going and I can't use MWD while webbed, so everything just flies circles around me at 5,000m and I miss until I eventually die. I'm running Valkyrie IIs but they don't make up for the huge loss of my own ship's damage and if I'm fighting against a cruiser of basically any kind I'm definitely going to be killed.

How do you counter web fits? Do you just fit a web of your own and hope you can keep them close enough?

I've ran into the same problem with using rails and projectile weapons as well. Webbed and then kept at arm's reach, or too close to be able to land hits. Maybe I'll stick to missile boats instead.



You CAN use a MWD while webbed. Whatyou cannot is use an MWD while scrammed.


A blaster boat is supposed to go balls deep and overhelm the target with superior firepower on 9 or 10 cases where it can win.

Also YOU need a web and a Scram. Your weapons are short range, so not using those would be bad on most cases.

The thorax shoudl jump into the throat and doing that it can defeat almost any cruiser (stupidly plated mallers might be a problem). IF you try to keep range then almost every cruiser will defeat you.


I've got a J5b scram, 10MN AB II, and an Experimental 10MN MWD slotted for mids, with a cap booster. Should I remove the MWD for a web?

And yeah, I typo'd that sentence. I usually get either dual webbed or webbed and scrammed and outranged, though, so my MWD seems almost like a wasted slot. On the other hand, in the instance that I don't get scrammed, the MWD would be invaluable for gap closing.

Most recently I got killed by a Navy Exequeror in a dual in Jita, after getting webbed and scrammed and held at about 3500. He was orbiting too fast for my blasters to track him and I missed nearly every volley. That's how most of my experiences fighting other cruisers go.

And I'm pretty bad at PvP in general so far, it seems hard to get a footing when nearly every person is running a fit that counters what I use in nearly every way. I feel like I'm behind on information about what the new "META" is for PvPing because everything I try just simply doesn't work.

drop the ab for a web. once you get t2 blasters you can use null to hit anything that scram kites you. you honestly dont even need the cap booster unless you are dual rep. also, just fyi, the vexor gets more dps than the thorax. dual web and a 1600 plate with electrons and 2 ogres, 2 hammers, 1 hob and a dda is pretty standard


I have access to all non-capital Tech 2 weapons, so if you have any suggestions for a better weapon fit on a non-hybrid platform that would be cool. My experience with T2 blasters has been all the same, using T2 electron blasters with Navy antimatter charges mostly. Haven't tried Null yet, though.

I use the cap booster because I always end up in really, really long slug fests. I've fought people for over 10 minutes straight without either of us dropping past armor. I run a med armor rep and paste for when things get overwhelming, also.

I might switch to the Vexor and see how it turns out.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2014-08-15 01:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Soooo... the Thorax is a bit of a weird ship in today's meta. In order to make it work you usually have to make some big sacrifices... but when it works it REALLY works.

[Thorax, ArmorBrawler]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Notes:
- it is a VERY close range setup (hence the double webs)
- if you are willing to sacrifice some DPS you can trade a MagStab for a Adaptive Nano Plate... giving ~10k more EHP.
- Warriors are there for anything you cannot catch... ECM drones are there if you are caught by something you do not feel comfortable engaging... or need an edge.
- giving up both sets of light drones for a set of Hammerheads can really boost your DPS... but you will then be at the mercy of ships faster than you.



[Thorax, RangedKiter]

Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Reactor Control Unit II

Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Warrior II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Notes:
- this is a ridiculously tight fit... so you may want to fiddle with it a bit in EFT.
- basically you are supposed to stay WAY out at range and be as fast as you can... getting scammed and webbed is a death sentence.
- with max skills you can shoot all the way out to ~60km using Spike ammo... but the DPS is so low you will not be killing much with it.
- with some modifications... you can trade the railguns for blasters and make this into a pure gank ship... able to pump out 400+ dps at close range with the turrets alone (more than 600 with Hammerheads). Just run in with everything overloaded and pray the target melts before they can successfully pull range in a panic.

How did you Veterans start?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#7 - 2014-08-15 13:49:59 UTC
terrible fits
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2014-08-15 14:57:56 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
terrible fits

Most probably. P

But let's see you do better.

How did you Veterans start?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2014-08-15 15:01:50 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
terrible fits

Most probably. P

But let's see you do better.


on my lossboard is my thorax setup of choice. you do kind of need AWU V, hybrid rigging V and armor rigging V for it though.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-08-15 18:07:43 UTC
Don't duel in Jita. They most likely have some kind of links or neutral logi backup. I'd suggest heading out to faction warfare land in some cheap frigates. That'll let you experiment with different combinations of modules to learn about range control. And range control is everything in frigate fights.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament