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Siphon Units = Useless

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General Nusense
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-14 04:40:03 UTC
Yup, thats right. If any of you have put a Siphon on a tower belonging to CFC/PL/N3 or any other Sov holding alliance your Siphon was detected through the API end point. Something that CCP said " wouldnt be possible". Since all the major nullsec sov holding alliances knew about this and used it, they should all be fined all the moon goo they have mined since the siphon units were released in game.

They knew about this and contiuned to use it without notifying CCP. Which would be an Exploit.


Source.

Made a signature so I am taken seriously on the forums, since thats the only thing they are good for.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-08-14 04:53:32 UTC
It's not really an exploit, it's another case of CCP being wrong.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3 - 2014-08-14 04:55:44 UTC
I wouldn't really say that's an exploit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-08-14 05:10:24 UTC
Bad? maybe

Exploit? no.
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#5 - 2014-08-14 05:25:41 UTC  |  Edited by: KIller Wabbit
CCP gg

If this is true, it allows oog tools to automate detection of siphons and the sending of kill-squad alerts. That makes it an exploit.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-08-14 05:43:58 UTC
Yes, looking at your own API data is clearly an exploit.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
How M'I Alive
Doomheim
#7 - 2014-08-14 05:46:20 UTC
If you know something is working in a manner that is not intended, which allows you to gain an advantage over others who are not aware of such, you are supposed to cease that activity immediately and report it to CCP.

We can talk semantics all day, but this has always been the case.

With that said, there is probably no way to actually prove the information was directly used to remove siphon units. Don't expect any repercussions.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-08-14 05:48:19 UTC
How M'I Alive wrote:
If you know something is working in a manner that is not intended, which allows you to gain an advantage over others who are not aware of such, you are supposed to cease that activity immediately and report it to CCP.

Try proving that we knew it wasn't working as intended.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#9 - 2014-08-14 05:50:49 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
How M'I Alive wrote:
If you know something is working in a manner that is not intended, which allows you to gain an advantage over others who are not aware of such, you are supposed to cease that activity immediately and report it to CCP.

Try proving that we knew it wasn't working as intended.


Or that looking at your own API data can somehow be punished.

Just ignore the worthless NPC alt, James.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#10 - 2014-08-14 05:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
How M'I Alive wrote:
If you know something is working in a manner that is not intended, which allows you to gain an advantage over others who are not aware of such, you are supposed to cease that activity immediately and report it to CCP.

Try proving that we knew it wasn't working as intended.

Proof that it isn't working as intended.


Edit: Off topic part was removed, CCP Phantom
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#11 - 2014-08-14 05:59:25 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

You saw a mechanic that wasn't working as intended, you gained an advantage, and you didn't report it to ccp. You're probably still abusing it as we speak.


If only looking at your own API didn't have literally dozens of legitimate uses.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-08-14 06:11:15 UTC
Regardless of the above, still not an exploit to look at your own API data.
I mean what options would we have to avoid it if it were an exploit? Refuse to look at our API data? Unreasonable. Pretend we didn't see it? Unreasonable.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#13 - 2014-08-14 06:17:37 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

However, there hasn't been any explicit statement or proof that this was abused by any particular party...until such proof is provided I think CCP should launch an investigation into whether and how severely this exploit was abused.


What exploit? Looking at your own API is an intended mechanic.

We've already established that it is unintended, and we have a very good definition for the correct procedure to follow in the event of such an unintended exploit:
How M'I Alive wrote:
If you know something is working in a manner that is not intended, which allows you to gain an advantage over others who are not aware of such, you are supposed to cease that activity immediately and report it to CCP.
.



Looking at your API, and acquiring information which CCP explicitly did not intend to be available, and than leveraging that information into tangible in-game advantages is an exploit.

This warrants a very harsh punishment if individuals or organizations did not report it and instead abused it.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#14 - 2014-08-14 06:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Regardless of the above, still not an exploit to look at your own API data.
I mean what options would we have to avoid it if it were an exploit? Refuse to look at our API data? Unreasonable. Pretend we didn't see it? Unreasonable.

Report it.
You avoid the whole "exploit" bit by reporting it to CCP.
Quote:
If you know something is working in a manner that is not intended, which allows you to gain an advantage over others who are not aware of such, you are supposed to cease that activity immediately and report it to CCP.

What part of this are you still not getting?
TharOkha
0asis Group
#15 - 2014-08-14 06:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Siphons are worthless.

You set them to several POSes and within a few hours they are destroyed. No matter if you steal from big boys (CFC/PL etc) or from the small corps.

Considering their price (12-14m) and time they are destroyed since you deploy them, they are totally not worth.

Maybe it is this API exploit i dont know...

If the Siphons would cost 500k-1m , it would be something different then.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#16 - 2014-08-14 07:00:07 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Regardless of the above, still not an exploit to look at your own API data.
I mean what options would we have to avoid it if it were an exploit? Refuse to look at our API data? Unreasonable. Pretend we didn't see it? Unreasonable.

It wouldn't be an exploit to continue using the API, but if it was used explicitly for this purpose without CCP being told then it was an exploit.
Boyamin
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-08-14 07:17:00 UTC
It's worth pointing out (inbetween all this pointless mud slinging), that a feature that was borderline useless anyway for many reasons other than being detectable by coding something, that requires CCP to corrupt API data to make it work properly, is probably not a good feature to iterate on for EVE's future anyway.

--> move code to legacy bin.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#18 - 2014-08-14 07:18:51 UTC
It's pretty similar to being able to see the notification mail when someone attacks your POS through the API - clearly an exploit knowing when you're being attacked...?

Or worse, you see the killmail of your structures. You know someone is there shooting up your stuff.

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2014-08-14 07:27:58 UTC
General Nusense wrote:
Yup, thats right. If any of you have put a Siphon on a tower belonging to CFC/PL/N3 or any other Sov holding alliance your Siphon was detected through the API end point. Something that CCP said " wouldnt be possible". Since all the major nullsec sov holding alliances knew about this and used it, they should all be fined all the moon goo they have mined since the siphon units were released in game.

They knew about this and contiuned to use it without notifying CCP. Which would be an Exploit.


Source.


Silly man, exploits are for the little guys, for the big players it's called creating content.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
TharOkha
0asis Group
#20 - 2014-08-14 07:32:06 UTC
Chribba wrote:
It's pretty similar to being able to see the notification mail when someone attacks your POS through the API - clearly an exploit knowing when you're being attacked...?

Or worse, you see the killmail of your structures. You know someone is there shooting up your stuff.

/c


Siphon unit was presented to us as something "stealth". Whats the point of this "stealth" unit if POS owner knows immediately (even he doesn't not need to be in game) that someone is stealing from him? Big smile

it lacks logic

Siphon price is cca 14m and they are shot down within hours..... siphons are worthless piece of HW in EVE.

And now, this API thing is discussed here in GD, so even POS owners who have not been aware of this until now, will be using API as out of game proximity sensor to detect siphons . Big smile

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
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