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Help me decide which way I should train
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Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-08-12 11:10:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Wrymn Wrymnn
Okay I need strong advice here :)

I need to decide what skills to train. The thing is I need it for PVE (doing sites,ratting) as well as PVP.

The factions I am deciding between are: Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr

1. Caldari
All nice ships. But for ratting in BS I can only use missiles except Rokh. I don`t want to train missiles that is problem with Caldari.

2. Minmatar
Ugly dreadnought :) Though only BS i see for ratting is Maelstorm or, sailing boat looking ship Tempest. Nice carriers

3. Amarr
Nice ships, dread looks a bit strange. The problem is I`m not sure amarr battleships are used in ratting. I mean T1 variants cuz I`m just starting to train. And I live in Serpentis space so maybe amarr are not good that them.

Also I don`t wanna faction cross train (so train gallente for example 50 days just to get some ishtar if I`m already mainly training for caldari lets say)

Thanks for any help in advance xD
Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-08-12 17:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Venjenz Sake
Pick the carrier you like. Focus on that race's preferred weapon system (Caldari = missiles, Gallente = hybrids, Minmatar = projectile, Amarr = lazerzpewpew), then focus on frigate PVP and how to maxmize your frigate of choice for it, then move to cruisers, etc.

Engineering - all skills IV or V
Navigation - all skills IV or V
Tank (shield or armor depending on your race of choice) - all IV or V
Drones - all skills IV or V
Weapons - all skills IV or V
Rigging - all skills IV
EW - all skills IV or V

max the heck out of frigates and cruisers (of whatever race you choose) for PVP.

Then work on logistics skills, since a carrier is a big Logi. Then skill for a carrier.

Done. See you in a year.
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-08-12 17:40:13 UTC
Venjenz Sake wrote:
Pick the carrier you like. Focus on that race's preferred weapon system (Caldari = missiles, Gallente = hybrids, Minmatar = projectile, Amarr = lazerzpewpew), then focus on frigate PVP and how to maxmize your frigate of choice for it, then move to cruisers, etc.

Engineering - all skills IV or V
Navigation - all skills IV or V
Tank (shield or armor depending on your race of choice) - all IV or V
Drones - all skills IV or V
Weapons - all skills IV or V
Rigging - all skills IV
EW - all skills IV or V

max the heck out of frigates and cruisers (of whatever race you choose) for PVP.

Then work on logistics skills, since a carrier is a big Logi. Then skill for a carrier.

Done. See you in a year.


hehe thank you that helped. :)

Though I need a little bit more advice before I move forward :)

The factions I am deciding between are: Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr
1. Caldari
All nice ships. But for ratting in BS I can only use missiles except Rokh. I don`t want to train missiles that is problem with Caldari.

2. Minmatar
Ugly dreadnought :) Though only BS i see for ratting is Maelstorm or, sailing boat looking ship Tempest. Nice carriers

3. Amarr
Nice ships, dread looks a bit strange. The problem is I`m not sure amarr battleships are used in ratting. I mean T1 variants cuz I`m just starting to train. And I live in Serpentis space so maybe amarr are not good that them.

So I need to pick one faction and from that I will train as you said from frigs -> cruiser -> BS - carrier/Dread
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2014-08-12 17:59:09 UTC
The Armageddon will rat anywhere just fine since its a drone boat. And its bonus to energy neutralizers makes it useful in PVP. The Archon is also generally considered to be the best carrier. So there is nothing wrong with going Amarr.

Out of curiosity what is wrong with Gallente? I get that you don't like their drone boats but they also have a perfectly usable line of hybrid based ships.
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-08-12 18:01:49 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The Armageddon will rat anywhere just fine since its a drone boat. And its bonus to energy neutralizers makes it useful in PVP. The Archon is also generally considered to be the best carrier. So there is nothing wrong with going Amarr.

Out of curiosity what is wrong with Gallente? I get that you don't like their drone boats but they also have a perfectly usable line of hybrid based ships.


I hate how their ships are looking, unreal. I see big fat ugly potatoe looking ships (dominix, ishtar, dreadnaught) and I prefer more normal looking ships.
Rankan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-08-12 18:06:37 UTC
You need to be more flexible if your going to survive in null. Sure you can limit yourself to one specific race and get in on kitchen sink fleets and small gang roaming. However, your going to have to cross train to get into the bigger, organized fleets as they will often be flying specific doctrines based on ships from the various races and if you can't fly them, you'll be relegated to support roles if your allowed to go at all.

You should talk to your corp and alliance people, FC's in particular, and see what suggestions they have to offer for pvp ships. Barring that I would suggest training ship and weapon skills for battlecruiser and below to 3 for all four factions so you have the broadest selection to chose from. Your still early enough in your career that cross training is quick. You can often train the skills for multiple ships in the time it takes to get one skill to 5. Nullsec is about the fleet and being able to show up with whats asked for when called and you can't do that if you focus on one particular race.

I would also hold off on making decisions now based on carriers and dreads as CCP has yet to "rebalance" them. What looks good now will likely be utter crap when all is said and done.

Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-08-12 18:13:42 UTC
Rankan wrote:
You need to be more flexible if your going to survive in null. Sure you can limit yourself to one specific race and get in on kitchen sink fleets and small gang roaming. However, your going to have to cross train to get into the bigger, organized fleets as they will often be flying specific doctrines based on ships from the various races and if you can't fly them, you'll be relegated to support roles if your allowed to go at all.

You should talk to your corp and alliance people, FC's in particular, and see what suggestions they have to offer for pvp ships. Barring that I would suggest training ship and weapon skills for battlecruiser and below to 3 for all four factions so you have the broadest selection to chose from. Your still early enough in your career that cross training is quick. You can often train the skills for multiple ships in the time it takes to get one skill to 5. Nullsec is about the fleet and being able to show up with whats asked for when called and you can't do that if you focus on one particular race.

I would also hold off on making decisions now based on carriers and dreads as CCP has yet to "rebalance" them. What looks good now will likely be utter crap when all is said and done.



The thing is I am kinda impatient person, I know that is bad in EvE :) The thing is, I cannot train for Ammar carrier (100days) and then stop and train for some Ishtar (50) days. It would kill that training time soooo much.

Nah our corp is okay with all the ships because every race has its advantage. So even if they go only Ishtar fleet I`m allowd to go with ****** condor so I can tackle people.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2014-08-12 18:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Also I don`t wanna faction cross train (so train gallente for example 50 days just to get some ishtar if I`m already mainly training for caldari lets say)

Ishtar is a specialization (T2), so of course it takes longer. There are a lot of usable ships in-between.

Without implants, and with default attributes (i.e. really sub-optimal and slow, so it can be done faster than this):

* Time to train all races of frigate / destroyer / cruiser / battlecruiser / battleship to level 3: 17d 20h 52s
* Time to train small / medium / large / hybrid / laser / projectile turrets & support skills to level 3: 13d 11h 39m 30s
* Time to train rockets / heavy assault / torpedoes / light / heavy / cruise missiles & support skills to level 3: 12d 23h 6m 40s

Of course you'll want other skills to fit rigs, defences, drones, and such.

Still in 18 + 14 + 13 = 45 days or less, you could be using a large number of ships, including all Navy and Pirate ships.
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-08-12 18:22:13 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Also I don`t wanna faction cross train (so train gallente for example 50 days just to get some ishtar if I`m already mainly training for caldari lets say)

Ishtar is a specialization (T2), so of course it takes longer. There are other a lot of usable ships in-between.

Without implants, and with default attributes (i.e. really sub-optimal and slow, so it can be done faster than this):

* Time to train all races of frigate / destroyer / cruiser / battlecruiser / battleship to level 3: 17d 20h 52s
* Time to train small / medium / large / hybrid / laser / projectile turrets & support skills to level 3: 13d 11h 39m 30s
* Time to train rockets / heavy assault / torpedoes / light / heavy / cruise missiles & support skills to level 3: 12d 23h 6m 40s

Of course you'll want other skills to fit rigs, defences, drones, and such.

Still in 18 + 14 + 13 = 45 days or less, you could be using a large number of ships.


I rather use one proper ship for PVP/ratting with maximalized damage in 45d then cross train and get not even half the damage in 45 days :)

So example:

Minmatar battleship lvl 5 - huge dps bonus
Projectile weapons lvl 5 - extra large dmg bonus
projectile support skill lvl 4 - dps bonus
Shield/Armor skills depends on faction I choose - lvl 4/5

So this is the choice I have to make, I rather prefer quality over quantity. So get the dps and defenses on my BS of chosen faction as soon as I can :)

Just don`t know what faction it is yet xD That`s why I need ur advice what would fit the best to serpentis space + general PVP
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2014-08-12 18:53:49 UTC
... and if someone tells you "Minmatar" and you train it for months, and find you hate it, what then?

Example: After Caldari I trained Minmatar, with an ultimate goal of a Typhoon. Unfortunately CCP changed the Typhoon by the time I had the skills for it, so that I was no longer interested in it. I chose never to let that happen again, and instead worked towards piloting every ship equally.

Min-maxers tend to get frustrated with EVE, as they play the skill-queue and not the game. In a fleet, skills matter even less.

Anyways, if you only want to train one additional race, you are likely best off with a race that opens pirate ships to you. Of course I base this solely on opening more options from your training time, which doesn't appear to be your goal.
Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-08-12 19:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Venjenz Sake
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
I rather use one proper ship for PVP/ratting with maximalized damage in 45d then cross train and get not even half the damage in 45 days :)

So example:

Minmatar battleship lvl 5 - huge dps bonus
Projectile weapons lvl 5 - extra large dmg bonus
projectile support skill lvl 4 - dps bonus
Shield/Armor skills depends on faction I choose - lvl 4/5

So this is the choice I have to make, I rather prefer quality over quantity. So get the dps and defenses on my BS of chosen faction as soon as I can :)

Just don`t know what faction it is yet xD That`s why I need ur advice what would fit the best to serpentis space + general PVP

Then I repeat part of my earlier post:

Engineering, navigation, shields, armor, drones, targeting, gunnery (support skills), missile (support skills) - for every one of those, take everything not meant for capitals to IV or V.

And really, do them in that order. Then do yourself a favor and take Tau's advice, and skill every race to III in frigate, destroyer, cruiser, battlecruiser and battleship.

If you want to get in the game fast for PVP, maximize one or more frigates for PVP and PVE. Ask 100 people what the best frigate for PVP is, you'll get 100 different answers even though there aren't even that many frigs. So there is no "best frigate" or any other ship, because everything in EVE is situational.

If you can't fly small ships well, you'll fly bigger ships worse. Squeezing every last drop of capability out of a frigate pays dividends later as you move up ship classes.

EDIT - and if you're in a hurry to see the game and go PVP'ing, Minmatar BS and Large Projectiles to V, and all the supporting skills to make flying/fitting maximized, will take you 6-9 months easily. If quality, not quantity is the goal, you have a lot of V's in your future, and that's a lot of skill queue time for maxing one specific hull.

If you insist on being impatient, have fun piloting your pod and buying/fitting replacement hulls.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-08-12 22:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Antillie Sa'Kan
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
I hate how their ships are looking, unreal. I see big fat ugly potatoe looking ships (dominix, ishtar, dreadnaught) and I prefer more normal looking ships.

Yeah, those are the drone boats. What about the Megathron, Hyperion, Brutix, Thorax, Deimos, and Proteus?
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-08-12 23:18:43 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
I hate how their ships are looking, unreal. I see big fat ugly potatoe looking ships (dominix, ishtar, dreadnaught) and I prefer more normal looking ships.

Yeah, those are the drone boats. What about the Megathron, Hyperion, Brutix, Thorax, Deimos, and Proteus?


Ah decided to go Galente since CCP loves to overpower one faction over the other.
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-08-14 00:33:17 UTC
I give the nod to hybrid and drone based ships.

Hybrids are the only cross-racial gun system. Both Caldari and Gallente use Hybrids, providing quite a bit of 'bang for the buck' in training. Additionally, between Cal and Gal, you cover shield and armor tanking specialists.

Drones are used on most ships above destroyer, so you'll train those regardless of what you fly.

Current null sec meta is fairly heavy with either hybrids (Baltecs, Proteus, etc) or drones (Ishtars are the new Drake). Gallente is heavily invested in both, and is the new darling of CCP. In days past it was 'winmatar' but these days, if I could only train for one race, it'd be Gallente.

I'm not a capital pilot, so I can't offer advice on those hulls. However, since (super) carriers are drone boats, that is obviously a tree that will be required to fly those particular ships.