Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This. More ideas like this. Lets see some actual counter to cap warfare, and all of a sudden this makes it really useful in a WH RR fleet, instead of just a 1.4b ISK boondoggle ship that does everything 1/4 as well as a T3.

Yes it is indeed a major problem if you can't use the most interesting aspect of the hull, what is a utility role as a RR BS like Marauders in a useful manner by the cap issues of the hull. Currently it can barely utilize medium corpum A type RR reps in a useful way and the Nestor could be a lot better if it actually had the proper cap to make something like 3 guns + 3-4 large reps feasible without wasting all med slots with cap rechargers.



Do you know what makes a big difference when you look at the total EHP and the tank? The suggestion are made when you look at the hull fully fitted in a useful setup, that would make sense. However this setups don't include trimarks or resist rigs, because the Nestor has to compromise the rig slots for the RR ability, what is a fairly massive deal if you look at overall EHP and survivability.

because logistics ships with infinite cap worked out so well with guardians not being horribly broken

There are a lot of ways you can take the nestor, but right now looking at the info it's primary purpose is to hit up higher level ghost sites and combat sites, which gives it a very limited role. So what role to give it besides that?
common suggestions

BS level triage - aka its own type of bastion module.
Tech II cloak bonus - 125% speed while cloaked per level etc.
- make it the black ops of SOE
drop the optimal range and give it something more useful?

Play off the lore of SOE. They are going into deep space to rescue people, ships and try to restore the EvE gate. Oh and personal opinion - ship bay is worthless.

No. To tank it to 500+ dps required to clear most combat sites in null or in WH space, you sacrifice everything, including damage. Plus, it cant handle neuts common in sleeper sites.

Nestor only kinda works in tandem with another nestor or a feeder guardian; a pair of nestors can half-assedly tank a C5 sleeper site, up to wave 2, maybe, but with serious problems in damage application. Forget running a C6.

But seriously, for wormhole PvE its a marauder or tengu for higher-end content, or RR domis for lower-end. There is NO reason to take nestors in PvE. Absolutely NONE. Ditto for null, only they use ishatrs in complexes I believe.

baltec believes it a PvP roam support battleship, but wont use the ship himself in that role.

Maybe nestor now has marginal uses in low-sec battleship-heavy gate camps as a mobile depot now at zero on the gate, but thats about it. When was the last time 30+ battleships sat on a low-sec gate? Those days are long gone...

It will do both of these with shiny fits, implants and high skills. I agree that it could use slightly better cap, but it should not be able to do all of these things at once without making some kind of meaningful sacrifice. A rack of application bonused guns, a full flight of sentries, range bonused RR and a strong tank should be enough to make sacrifices for. It should be mostly cap modules if you are trying to fit such an all purpose ship, as lasers don't use ammo and already have wonderful selection, but pay for it with high cap use and limited damage types, RR is designed to use cap as its limiting resource and you still have bonused drones. So pick one role and stop trying to make it do everything at once. It can do everything, just not at once, and this SMA will let a nestor gang refit to do everything, just like a carrier gang can.


I can get it cap stable with a full rack of RR, 70%+ resists, 100k EHP and no modules more expensive than t2, and t1 rigs, without using implants. This looks fairly reasonable to me for most currently proposed setups theory crafted, as it VERY quickly gets better when you start running faction modules or implants. Granted, it lacks the guns, but it has almost double the raw rep power of a guardian or onieros, without a cap chain to foul on.


This is much more an issue with cap chains being a very powerful mechanic than with logistics ships themselves. It is a force multiplier for the guardian/basilisk to be able to relieve neut pressure, but it is countered by the fact that applying such pressure and then breaking the locks in the cap chain will cause several ships to cap out, rather than just one. This is simply the easiest and most frustrating counter.

I'd be satisfied with the Nestor if it had another low-slot, a jump drive, and the SMA held ~20K-30K m3. That would mean pilots could stash a frigate in the SMA for their cyno alt to swap into. You could even take those analyzer & probing bonuses away and I doubt anyone would miss them since most people won't even need them if they can keep an astero in the bay.

I like the neutralizer resistance idea so long as it is not total neutralizer immunity, but with so many mid-slots you could achieve this to some degree anyway by fitting capacitor batteries, so I'm not sure it would revolutionize the hull unless the resistance was quite substantial.

That sounds like the Nestor is a awesome ship right now already. However all that fittings are outdone by block standard Logi or RR Marauder for a fraction of the price with a lot better survivability or DPS. If you use the meds for cap recharges, the utility compared to a Oni is laughable(the survivability already is, it needs 3 times more RR -> 4 vs 1 T2 large RR on it in the same scenario to keep it alive), if you use the low slots for tank you will see like 400 dps from it, what is so worth the extra price tag over the Oni(especially without tracking links). Compare it to a RR Marauder that can deal more DPS and also fields a lot of RR, the only a advantage of the Nestor is a bit more RR range and RR amount however to make it really practical it needs the capacitor to actually utilize all this modules halve way decent. Else I could just slap 2-3 cap mods on my Paladin and call it a day, still more room for TCs and damage mods, still more DPS and still a lot cheaper.
Btw, lasers do use T2 and faction crystals(a lot actually).



That is the difference I don't theory craft, I have and use on that is fitted quite expensive, with all skills at 5 and that is actually used in a useful niche. Btw the double RR is a lot less impressive as it looks like, since you need a hole Logi just to keep the Nestor alive(that single logi can also already keep the rest alive on its own), you don't use large reps(because it gimps your dps and utility to much, so it is not twice the RR), while a Oni or Guardian can survive very easy by staying close to a RR BS without any issues on cap or RR amount whatsoever for most practical purpose. Also you could fit up a guardian with 6 reps as well, if RR is all you need(that actually works with 2 med reps on it rather well without cap chain and decent EHP, similar to a 6/0 Basi).

Lets pretend for one second we use a realistic fitting. Is it awesome at DPS? No not really, it doesn't have the application bonuses from the Domi and loses nearly everything that makes it more practical than the Domi by fitting lasers(the RR) and with the extra low to slap on a another plate the EHP difference is not that great(the extra resists are nice, then again signature). Also Marauders can do a similar thing nearly as good with more DPS and cheaper. Is it awesome as Logi? If you need a static solo logi it is ok, however it costs a fortune to add some utility the Logis have out of the box and a for most practical applications a solo Nestor paired up with RR BS is far easier to kill than a solo logi, that gets worse by scaling, because Logis tank a lot better. Plus mobility and RR range on the normal Logis is still a lot better, plus being a lot more expandable.

It can be used as Inc Logi for VGs, it isn't even that awesome since it only offers 1-2 more tracking link over the Oni(again you want Omnis on it for the Sentry drones so it is more like 1-0), it adds around 650 dps over a Oni(if you 3 slot tank it and most not fully maxed Logi pilots will have issues to keep it up on her own), however it is pointless in bigger sites where you need mobility(by the limited rep range), it is awful as solo logi(because it needs a truck of RR on it to keep it up) and the extra RR is rather pointless if you use 2 loigs anyway(a single Oni can already handle the incoming DPS). Overall it is even questionable in a very this small niche. Is it worth the price tag? While it is a ok alternative, it is not worth 10 times the ISK than pimped Oni and yes I say that despite the fact actually having one fitted that way and using it from time to time.

i'd rather wait for meaningful changes then have to deal with people abusing the crap out of a blatantly obvious overpowered ship.

Bonuses are still meaningless as they don't fit to a theme.
Meaning it has no clear role and will continue to be outplayed in almost every role.