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CSM - Changes to Market and to Station Controls

First post
Author
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2014-07-20 09:27:42 UTC
Good Morning, I was wondering what CCP's thoughts are on the following:

1. One of the more interesting issues about the market is the inability to see who is selling or buying until after they purchased from you, or after you've purchased from them. Any chance the CCP will consider it a "little thing" and put seller/buyer title in the market information?

2. This goes hand in hand with point number one. Is CCP willing to give corporations/alliances more control of their own sov control markets by giving them the ability to ban individuals/corporations/alliances from buying and/or selling in their markets. For example, suppose you have a light blue alliance, and while they are good at fighting, they aren't so good at controlling a few of their more.. industrial/carebear types, who don't appear to be helping you out with their presence. So, you cut only those who have been abusing your friendship. It makes sense that the corporation that controls the station would have the ability to specifically control who buys and sells.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2014-07-20 11:53:43 UTC
What problem will this fix

Who will it help and how?

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2014-07-20 17:52:10 UTC
It should be noted:

If CCP did add who you're buying from/selling to, to the market, it's not like it would let you buy/sell with someone else. you can't pick orders. Just buy from the lowest sell order, or sell to the highest buy order.



As for 2, block them from docking?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2014-07-21 03:32:34 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
It should be noted:

If CCP did add who you're buying from/selling to, to the market, it's not like it would let you buy/sell with someone else. you can't pick orders. Just buy from the lowest sell order, or sell to the highest buy order.



As for 2, block them from docking?


Well, that would be your choice, which is important to have. Oddly enough, I disagree with your sentiment. I think if people knew who they were buying from, they would likely be a bit more selective about their purchases. Maybe you'll be more likely to purchase a product from a corp member over someone you don't know. Or maybe you'll refuse to buy a cheaper product from someone you don't like because you're on opposite sides of the war, or you just think he's a d***.

Now, you need that first part, in order to effectively do the second. As a station owner you should have quite a few tools available for dealing with various internal issues. Having the ability to ban pilots from either buying or selling (or both) in the local market would allow a station owner to have more direct control over what is available to the people wants. It is all about choice, and tools to make those choices.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-07-21 03:47:28 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
What problem will this fix

Who will it help and how?



It will fix a strange lack of choice on behalf of players in deciding who they wish to purchase from. Maybe not a problem, but it could be classified as a "little" annoyance.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#6 - 2014-07-21 09:19:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
You can't choose who you buy from. You can only choose how much you pay, the order with the lowest sell price is always sold first, regardless of the price you choose to pay.

If your idea went ahead, the only way to avoid buying stuff from the person with the lowest listed price would be to go and buy from a different station.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'

corebloodbrothers
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-07-21 10:07:53 UTC
U basically can deny acces to station of u own sov, its one of the perks over npc null. Or u work with pre fitted allaince contracts on ships even corp if u have too

I would as providence nrds love to tax by standing though, so that guests pay more .
So tax by standing would myabe help u also?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#8 - 2014-07-21 11:52:49 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
I think if people knew who they were buying from, they would likely be a bit more selective about their purchases.


Unless you're proposing a change to the market that goes significantly beyond 'show who each order belongs to' the only way to be selective is to go to another station, or not buy something.

To be clear: It is not possible to select which order to interact with. you always buy from the lowest sell, regardless of which you select, and how much isk you put in.


Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2014-07-21 19:15:04 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Unless you're proposing a change to the market that goes significantly beyond 'show who each order belongs to' the only way to be selective is to go to another station, or not buy something.

To be clear: It is not possible to select which order to interact with. you always buy from the lowest sell, regardless of which you select, and how much isk you put in.




I see what you are saying.. so, shouldn't that be fixed as well?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#10 - 2014-07-25 22:01:31 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
I see what you are saying.. so, shouldn't that be fixed as well?


Given the RMT potential of "fixing" it, no.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#11 - 2014-07-26 16:59:43 UTC
'fixed' is the key word there.

It suggest that it should be changed. tbh, I don't think it should be.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2014-07-26 18:33:25 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
'fixed' is the key word there.

It suggest that it should be changed. tbh, I don't think it should be.


Why not?

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander

Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-08-13 14:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Steve Ronuken wrote:

As for 2, block them from docking?

Won't work in NPC nulls, and in lows too. And it has meaning there - like, you have set some logistical facilities and keep market full up to your needs. But there are your reds around, living fence to fence with you and you don't want to sell them weapons they will use against you the same night. Yes, they can still infiltrate your ranks to have access to market, but at least this will take some effort, and sometimes hopefully can be tracked.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link

De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-08-13 14:42:34 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
'fixed' is the key word there.

It suggest that it should be changed. tbh, I don't think it should be.


Why not?


Two reasons - the simplest is because it would make it far to easy to (try to) disguise RMT as legitamate market activity, making it that much harder for CCP to hunt down. Now, if you want to use the market to help run your RMT operation you have to go to out of the way stations without much traffic, and that makes it easier for CCP to find.

Second reason is because that's just not how the Eve market works. It's not a store where you go in, look around, and if you don't like the product, the price or the owner, you go to a different store. It helps to think of the Eve market as a commodities brokerage (because that's what it is). Sellers indicate what goods they have and the lowest price they will accept for them. Buyers indicate what goods they want and the price they are willing to pay. The market service, acting as a broker, matches orders on a lowest price out per station system. If two orders have the same price, the oldest order wins (iirc).

The system doesn't need to be changed because, frankly, there's no compelling reason to do so. It works, and by working the way it does it helps limit RMT potential.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.