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mordus rebalance
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2014-08-13 14:07:53 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
light missiles are the main issue. and rapid launchers I guess - they should just be removed.


Nah, just rolled back to how they were before they became that ancillery launcher abonination.

And if someone finally acknowledges that that missile tracking stuff is moot and ditches all that we have a bunch of missile pirate boats, worthy of their title.


they were still terrible design back then. if you want smaller, better tracking weapons, you should have to drop to a proper gimp fit for it, or actually fly the right ship class. and yeah, light missiles themselves are overpowered as well, regardless of the launcher.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-08-13 14:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
TrouserDeagle wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
light missiles are the main issue. and rapid launchers I guess - they should just be removed.


Nah, just rolled back to how they were before they became that ancillery launcher abonination.

And if someone finally acknowledges that that missile tracking stuff is moot and ditches all that we have a bunch of missile pirate boats, worthy of their title.


they were still terrible design back then. if you want smaller, better tracking weapons, you should have to drop to a proper gimp fit for it, or actually fly the right ship class. and yeah, light missiles themselves are overpowered as well, regardless of the launcher.


Well remember there are NO "calibers" of launchers.


Dual 180mm AC
220 AC
425AC

vs

HAM.


It is impossible to "downsize" launchers within a weapon size group (small/medium/large/cap) like you can with turrets.


Edit: Which is the root cause of the trouble with launchers and why I suggested changing it in here
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#23 - 2014-08-13 14:40:52 UTC
afkalt wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
light missiles are the main issue. and rapid launchers I guess - they should just be removed.


Nah, just rolled back to how they were before they became that ancillery launcher abonination.

And if someone finally acknowledges that that missile tracking stuff is moot and ditches all that we have a bunch of missile pirate boats, worthy of their title.


they were still terrible design back then. if you want smaller, better tracking weapons, you should have to drop to a proper gimp fit for it, or actually fly the right ship class. and yeah, light missiles themselves are overpowered as well, regardless of the launcher.


Well remember there are NO "calibers" of launchers.


Dual 180mm AC
220 AC
425AC

vs

HAM.


It is impossible to "downsize" launchers within a weapon size group (small/medium/large/cap) like you can with turrets.


Edit: Which is the root cause of the trouble with launchers and why I suggested changing it in here


you know what I mean - proper downsize. the kind of downsize that gets you 4-8x tracking. downclass or something. the different tiers of turrets is pretty irrelevant here.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-08-13 14:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
To a point - were my suggestion taken forward, it could fix lot of the crap with missiles of all sizes. Smaller turrets have shorter ranges and better application than larger - nothing stopping that being added to missiles too, they just need to tweak the numbers. Stops a flat line of damage up to max range which is impossible to balance well.

They are impossible to balance correctly in the state they are in and nerfs don't work well (see HML) due to the limitations forced on us by the single launcher type. Buffs would be a pretty bad move generally too.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#25 - 2014-08-13 15:36:05 UTC
I think you're wrong.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2014-08-13 15:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
So how do you balance something which hits all the time at 0-55 and keep it balanced at all those ranges next to its peer group?

Because if it is balanced at 0 it's broken at 55 and vice versa.

Though from your posts, feels like you'd rather just see the entire system deleted so maybe I'm asking the wrong person.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2014-08-13 15:55:24 UTC
afkalt wrote:
So how do you balance something which hits all the time at 0-55 and keep it balanced at all those ranges next to its peer group?

Because if it is balanced at 0 it's broken at 55 and vice versa.

Though from your posts, feels like you'd rather just see the entire system deleted so maybe I'm asking the wrong person.


combat drones have range versatility like missiles, and people don't hurf blurf about those as much (except on newly broken guristas ships).
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-08-13 16:17:41 UTC
They miss, they have more significant travel time, they are destructible (and more finite), they are essentially locked to a damage type.

The only missiles people complain about are light. The rest are basically trash (setting aside PvE) next to comparable turrets.

My money is actually on the next complaint being medium rails once more people wake up to their ungodly power.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#29 - 2014-08-13 21:02:19 UTC
I really feel amused by people talking about.missiles. because most of you are wrong or at best only partially right. Light missiles do benefit from TP. Fury lights have an exR of 69 or close depending on set up. Your average frigate has a sigR of like 35/40. Straight away you lose damage.

A correctly fit corax can push 1994 volley downfield. It doesn't have any tank whatsoever but you fly a volley corax with a slicer for tackle and you can pretty much alpha a frigate in 1 or 2 shots.
GreenSeed
#30 - 2014-08-13 23:33:49 UTC
afkalt wrote:
They miss, they have more significant travel time, they are destructible (and more finite), they are essentially locked to a damage type.

The only missiles people complain about are light. The rest are basically trash (setting aside PvE) next to comparable turrets.

My money is actually on the next complaint being medium rails once more people wake up to their ungodly power.


the problem is not the rails, the problem is the ferox/Eagle/Vulture line of hulls, those optimals are just plain stupid.

and about the OP, they are pirate hulls. shinny toys to play with until you lose one or two and find yourself wishing you had bought a few T1/T2 hulls instead.

medium gang/sov warfare will never see pirate hulls. even if you had the ISK to buy the hulls, their supply is not unlimited. the moment you try to come up with any doctrine using pirate hulls you'll find that buying 10% of the required hulls immediately empties all Hubs of pirate hulls, triggering a 20% 30% price spike that will take months to settle.

you can't have people switch their training ques to accommodate a one time only fleet.
Rogue Lawyer
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-08-14 01:33:14 UTC
Isn't the whole idea of Pirate ships to have a unique attribute that gives them the ability to break the rules?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#32 - 2014-08-14 02:04:25 UTC
Rogue Lawyer wrote:
Isn't the whole idea of Pirate ships to have a unique attribute that gives them the ability to break the rules?


Yes.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#33 - 2014-08-14 08:30:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


You were lied to.

Fleets of pirate BS will never happen.


I think you were lied to , RVB ganked Blobbed a Fleet of 2 Bhaals , a Mach , 2 Vindis a few other ships a few weeks ago in low sec.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-08-14 08:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
baltec1 wrote:

You were lied to.

Fleets of pirate BS will never happen.



All of this has happened before and will happen again.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-08-14 12:00:47 UTC
Andrew Indy wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


You were lied to.

Fleets of pirate BS will never happen.


I think you were lied to , RVB ganked Blobbed a Fleet of 2 Bhaals , a Mach , 2 Vindis a few other ships a few weeks ago in low sec.

5 pirate ships is not a fleet... that's a small gang.
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