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Perhaps Null sec is "dieing"....
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Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
#1 - 2011-09-12 13:34:07 UTC
because of the over abundance of RMT and Botting that goes on out there. Seems like every time you turn around, some other alliance is accused of either allowing or actively using RMT or bots.

So here is what i propose for fixing nullsec:
Balance pvp (super cap and dram nerf good idea... maybe fix hybrids?)
Get rid of local... the idea of being forced to identify yourself in a local chat in a non-policed area is absurd.
Aggressively counter botters and RMT that takes place in Null (or well anywhere)
Work on income sources - (ie, many lvl4s could afford to be more difficult, and incursions in high sec make absurd amounts of money)
Increase mining payouts in null - if local is removed more miners may actually chance it

I'm sure i could think of more ideas that aren't just NERF or MOVE TO LOW/NULL only.
Kerppe Krulli
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-12 13:48:14 UTC
This is simple regarding the 'crackdown on bots'. Bots = accounts = plex/sub count = illusion of growing/stable player base = venture funding to CCP = WoD/Dust.

They will never go out and actually ban these accounts in mass. Doing so will remove a good chunk of paying subs suddenly along with anyone dependent upon them. That will make sub numbers appear weak and that the game is losing subs faster than before which will scare venture funding for their Twilight Online and Dust games. They slap the hands of the most blatant abusers but that is all they will ever do.
Prince Kobol
#3 - 2011-09-12 13:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Basically CCP are scared shitless of banning any bots belonging to Big Null Sec Alliances.

i would love CCP to prove me and many others wrong but we know thats not going to happen.

Also no point asking the CSM as they belong to the very same null sec alliance that uses bots and RMT
Risdyna Madeveda
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-09-12 14:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Risdyna Madeveda
removing local would pretty much kill mining except for the very organized.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#5 - 2011-09-12 14:21:38 UTC
Risdyna Madeveda wrote:
removing local would pretty much kill mining except for the very organized.


I am going to assume that you were referring to the removal of local killing 0.0 mining.

Wrong. Go outside and look, but the sky is not falling and will not fall if local is removed from 0.0 It might actually mean that those big, invincible, super blob-ing alliances in 0.0 might have to actually "get eyes on gates" and be far more organized about "ops" like mining than they are. It wouldn't be enough to simply check local for reds, oh noes...

Wormholes come to mind. And the mining that the residents of those wormholes take part in. Granted, it is not a easy thing to do and requires teamwork to do it properly and safely. But it is very doable. Very.

Besides, why does CCP need to make things any easier? Aren't additional ISK sinks needed? I know I've seen hundreds of comments over the last few weeks talking about the need for more/bigger ISK sinks. Seems like some of the 0.0 activities that rely on local and are therefore extremely safe ought to get looked at.


If you were not referring to 0.0 mining, then I think you misunderstood the discussion revolving around removing local as those have largely been in regards to removing local from 0.0 not Empire Space.

I'm right behind you
Signal11th
#6 - 2011-09-12 14:22:59 UTC
Risdyna Madeveda wrote:
removing local would pretty much kill mining except for the very organized.



??lol bascially you have just said removing local would kill mining for the stupid. It's 0.0 you're supposed to be organized.

It's like saying if you get rid of local I will not be able to pvp anymore because I'm not very good at it. Which in my case is very true but I would still do it local or no local.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-12 14:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Risdyna Madeveda wrote:
removing local would pretty much kill mining except for the very organized.



Yeah maybe but, CCP did say they were considering doing this while providing "other" means to gather intel about who is in a system. So, who knows what that means?

Quote:

I am going to assume that you were referring to the removal of local killing 0.0 mining.

Wrong. Go outside and look, but the sky is not falling and will not fall if local is removed from 0.0 It might actually mean that those big, invincible, super blob-ing alliances in 0.0 might have to actually "get eyes on gates" and be far more organized about "ops" like mining than they are. It wouldn't be enough to simply check local for reds, oh noes...

Wormholes come to mind. And the mining that the residents of those wormholes take part in. Granted, it is not a easy thing to do and requires teamwork to do it properly and safely. But it is very doable. Very.

Besides, why does CCP need to make things any easier? Aren't additional ISK sinks needed? I know I've seen hundreds of comments over the last few weeks talking about the need for more/bigger ISK sinks. Seems like some of the 0.0 activities that rely on local and are therefore extremely safe ought to get looked at.


If you were not referring to 0.0 mining, then I think you misunderstood the discussion revolving around removing local as those have largely been in regards to removing local from 0.0 not Empire Space.


Botting is only possible when the cost of doing such is near zero. You start getting people "guarding" are you going to pay them? Or are you just going to start ordering players to sit there for hours? It won't work. Those players will get bored and they'll leave.

As for wormhole botting. That is never going to happen on the scale it does in null. We have very finite ore and 0 ice. Not going to happen. But even if CCP were to give us that magical buff here's what would happen:

1) Cov-ops comes in see's hulks on dscan.

2) Cov-ops probes out system and all grav/ladar sites.

3) Bot hulks detect probes on dscan. They warp back to POS, go offline.

4) Cov-ops goes back where it came from.

5) A couple of hours later bots are back on site mining.

6) Cov-ops comes back online, calls in more cloaky friends.

7) They all warp on hulks without warning. All hulks dead hulks.

In a best practice scenario those bots would have to stop using those grav/ladar sites entirely and wait days for new ones everytime they detected probes on dscan. Surely, if someone knew people were botting regularly in w-space the way I outlined it is exactly how it would go.

There are ways to make a w-space system safe, temporarily. It's possible you can close all points of entry. However, that is time consuming and risky. It also doesn't prevent random incoming wh's.

As w-space mechanics work now, botting with any reliability is resource limited and fraught with risk.

Don't ban me, bro!
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
#8 - 2011-09-12 14:42:56 UTC
Between Bot-RMT russians in the north and proud to be assholes goons in the south there is not much left for an EVE player who does not fall into any of these categories.

So 0.0 is dead, yes.

....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced.
AmberIynn
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-09-12 14:44:01 UTC
CCP doesn't care about bots. It never has. All their "efforts" to combat it have been nothing but smoke and mirriors. Shame really.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#10 - 2011-09-12 14:52:29 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:

Botting is only possible when the cost of doing such is near zero. You start getting people "guarding" are you going to pay them? Or are you just going to start ordering players to sit there for hours? It won't work. Those players will get bored and they'll leave.

As for wormhole botting. That is never going to happen on the scale it does in null. We have very finite ore and 0 ice. Not going to happen. But even if CCP were to give us that magical buff here's what would happen:

1) Cov-ops comes in see's hulks on dscan.

2) Cov-ops probes out system and all grav/ladar sites.

3) Bot hulks detect probes on dscan. They warp back to POS, go offline.

4) Cov-ops goes back where it came from.

5) A couple of hours later bots are back on site mining.

6) Cov-ops comes back online, calls in more cloaky friends.

7) They all warp on hulks without warning. All hulks dead hulks.

In a best practice scenario those bots would have to stop using those grav/ladar sites entirely and wait days for new ones everytime they detected probes on dscan. Surely, if someone knew people were botting regularly in w-space the way I outlined it is exactly how it would go.

There are ways to make a w-space system safe, temporarily. It's possible you can close all points of entry. However, that is time consuming and risky. It also doesn't prevent random incoming wh's.

As w-space mechanics work now, botting with any reliability is resource limited and fraught with risk.


You're absolutely right about possibly botting in wormholes. And your example is very accurate as to what can, and does, happen in wormholes. I was making the argument that 0.0 should involve risk. At the moment it does not for a great many of the people living there. I live in a couple wormholes. And the corps I've lived in them with operate (under the truest form of the word) as a team when the security of the WH is at issue (and it generally is given the nature of wormholes).

I'm right behind you
Crunchmeister
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-09-12 15:01:34 UTC
AmberIynn wrote:
CCP doesn't care about bots. It never has. All their "efforts" to combat it have been nothing but smoke and mirriors. Shame really.


I agree. I used to be a bot hunter. I've put in many petitions, and only ever had 1 actioned because I kept pressing the issue. In these days of declining subscriptions, CCP needs all the cash it can get, and if it comes from isk-farming bots that run RMT rackets, then so be it.

In the end, it's more effective to just gank bots, even the high sec mining bots. But even then, they just end up moving to another system to do their work, so it's not really much of a help.

I'm afraid that

People were constantly telling me I was crazy. For a long time I didn't believe them, but after a while, I started to think they might be right.

But it turns out that they were all wrong. One of the voices in my head is a psychiatrist and he says I'm perfectly sane.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-09-12 15:11:30 UTC
Not saying that botting etc. doesnt exist, It does and we all know about it...

We also know that CCP are actively working on solution ... some says : "We cant defeat them lets join them" strategy is in place

However accusation alliances of supporting or actively joining the mass of Botters is mostly propaganda... If you roll over others, Others says you "cheating" If others rolls over you .. You say Others "cheating" on personal level...

On pollitics level is to move seed of doubt in opponents army about who they help and what for...

But for most EVE players its just game, they do what they like. For political superpowers in EVE is EVE something else.

Anyway i was one of sanctum whore, whoring sanctums 22/7. Some could say i was botting, when i just merely made isk to support others people projects...

The human interface me was present at all time and i was clicking Big smile