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New lvl 4 missions in Hyperion...
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Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-08-12 17:04:45 UTC
I highly doubt these missions will favor any cookie cutter fit. I have a strong feeling these missions will have a lot of randomization. Being frig sized PVE lvl 4s, you can and should expect to lose ships. If you think this will be 1 or 2 ships dominate all missions, you're gonna be in for a rude awakening.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#22 - 2014-08-12 17:43:06 UTC
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:
Darn, I was hoping the mission changes they talked about involved rebalancing mission rewards, because the reprocessing nerf hit mission runners pretty hard. I hope this is still the case.

That said, I do like the idea of this. Gives people who went whole hog into frigates the ability to run level 4 missions.


Yeah, it's kind of aggravating right now. Frigates are possible up to level 3, but even then some missons turn into a stupid grind because of so many high-HP enemies. Most level 3-4 missions aren't even that dangerous, thanks to frigs being fast and having a small sig, but trying to grind down dozens of battleships turns unfun fast.

I really hope the new missions makes it possible to pull my old Assault Frigs out for a few rounds.

And next: New level 4 missions for cruisers? Please, CCP?
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#23 - 2014-08-12 17:55:39 UTC
I expect these new L4 missions to be somewhat similar to the FW missions. Ie., involve longish travel distances, possibly trying to send you into low sec and offering approx the same rewards as current L4 missions.

But I am just being slightly pessimistic.

It will be indeed quite tricky to balance them reasonably but we'll see. With the L4 LP payout algorithm being as it is if these end up easily blitzable the LP payouts will drop pretty low.

E-War on NPC's is a bit annoying. You would end up with a situation like in FW where it's lol to do stuff against amarr themed things because tracking disruption is meaningless against stealth bombers while painters hurt like hell if you go up against minmatar themed FW opponents.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-08-12 17:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
I highly doubt these missions will favor any cookie cutter fit. I have a strong feeling these missions will have a lot of randomization. Being frig sized PVE lvl 4s, you can and should expect to lose ships. If you think this will be 1 or 2 ships dominate all missions, you're gonna be in for a rude awakening.


If Assault Frigs are allowed, Enyo, Harpy or Hawk will rule them all depending on the NPCs DPS/tank ratio, except the NPC has specific high Therm/Kin resistances or is a super kiter with 6k m/s. In all other circumstances even with the AI having a super active tank nothing matches the DPS from a pimped Enyo or the Harpy DPS/tank ratio.
I used the Enyo in lowsec PvP, solo can be tricky but with one mate having some RR on you, i killed Cynabals, Vexxors and multipe Assault Frigs at once with it.
The point is with small guns the DPS is for real and having 450 DPS on a lowsec PvP fit, that hurts.

In other words,
NPC DPS not high > Enyo
NPC DPS high > Harpy
NPC DPS really high > Hawk

Of course in case you use Blaster you should know how to use scram+web and get your transversaal to zero.


Edit:
E-war on NPCs can be tricky, TD can really hurt turret setups, and ECM, well lets not start with ECM in a 1v1. Anyway nasty racial E-war can change things, especially TD. In that case, well Missile and Drone ships will rule that segment.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#25 - 2014-08-12 19:29:20 UTC
Sell your meta 4 mission loot at a lowsec hub. You'll get better returns, but may take longer to sell. PvPers hate having to run up to highsec to get fittings.

Some good systems to sell your loot: Vlilirier, Nisuwa, Nennamaila.

I'm sure there are others.
Paranoid Loyd
#26 - 2014-08-13 07:24:54 UTC
Since we are all pretty much wildly guessing, I would venture to say that these missions will require teamwork. The rat will be strong enough that you will not be able to kill it with any single frig but will require multiple frigs to take down. The DPS may even be high enough that logi will be required as it will not be possible to tank the rats in a frig. Shocked

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#27 - 2014-08-13 08:50:47 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Since we are all pretty much wildly guessing, I would venture to say that these missions will require teamwork. The rat will be strong enough that you will not be able to kill it with any single frig but will require multiple frigs to take down. The DPS may even be high enough that logi will be required as it will not be possible to tank the rats in a frig. Shocked


Anything able to pop a AF will pop the T1 logi frigs faster than you say "oh f...". If you allow cruisers in there then these will be done in cruisers.

Teamwork can be replaced by alts. And someone will sooner or later throw 30 bombers at it using ISBoxer and will one volley the target ;)

So I'm looking forward to see what kind of rabbit is CCP pulling out of their hat. It is theoretically possible that they might have something interesting in their sleeve. Something requiring manual piloting, overheating and teaching the newbs all the right skills for properly flying a frigate and at the same time greatly reducing effectivity of just dropping 5 alts in there. Ofc it's equally possible that they just slap overly excessive amount of e-war in it to "encourage teamwork", i.e., make it impossible to do it solo.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-08-13 08:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: S'Way
Quote:
that will be available from all security agents in Empire space.

Just empire space ? My guess is if that's the case they'll all be missions against other empire factions. (so not something for those of us balancing standings with all main empires).

Given the ship size for these it would be nice if they could add them for pirate faction agents in null too.
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#29 - 2014-08-13 09:15:35 UTC
S'Way wrote:
Quote:
that will be available from all security agents in Empire space.

Just empire space ? My guess is if that's the case they'll all be missions against other empire factions. (so not something for those of us balancing standings with all main empires).

Given the ship size for these it would be nice if they could add them for pirate faction agents in null too.


That would certainly be interesting development if these would be also available in low sec / null sec. I would see these be quite popular in particular in low sec, depending on how they would be implemented.

Currently it is frankly just not quite worth it to run the regular L4 missions in low sec. The LP is the same you can get from FW and FW mission farming is far more lucrative in low sec atm. If they would be available in low sec and doable in frigates some people might go for it over FW as regular missions do not broadcast a beacon and do not nuke your opposing faction standings (unless it's against an opposing empire faction ofc).

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Illegal Fan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-08-13 11:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Illegal Fan
Sounds like a chance to get blown up by npcs using 40m frigate t2 frig fits to play tackler in staged npc fleet vs fleet battles, all for poor payouts on missions that will be tough/impossible to blitz.

But potentially fun
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#31 - 2014-08-14 05:56:04 UTC
Altirius Saldiaro wrote:
I highly doubt these missions will favor any cookie cutter fit. I have a strong feeling these missions will have a lot of randomization. Being frig sized PVE lvl 4s, you can and should expect to lose ships. If you think this will be 1 or 2 ships dominate all missions, you're gonna be in for a rude awakening.


I don't think that's the intention, but it always happens in this game. Someone will figure out the optimal fit or fleet comp for these missions, and that will be the end of the story: anything else will be doing it wrong.

I really hope these turn out to be awesome. I don't feel very optimistic about it though. If they are soloable, they will get farmed. If they are only possible with groups, they will get farmed . . . . basically, they will get farmed.

But who knows? Maybe they will get farmed by mission runners in pvp fits instead of gankbait fits, and that would be an improvement for everyone.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-08-14 08:15:55 UTC
Glathull wrote:
[quote=Altirius Saldiaro]

But who knows? Maybe they will get farmed by mission runners in pvp fits instead of gankbait fits, and that would be an improvement for everyone.


Only if there are missions that need manual flying and overheat :D
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-08-14 13:50:52 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Glathull wrote:
[quote=Altirius Saldiaro]

But who knows? Maybe they will get farmed by mission runners in pvp fits instead of gankbait fits, and that would be an improvement for everyone.


Only if there are missions that need manual flying and overheat :D


You seem to assume people won't just pimp the ship to make it easyer. What's preventing people from building purple hawk when people build purple ravens?
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#34 - 2014-08-14 13:56:05 UTC
Color me interested.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Athryn Bellee
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-08-14 18:50:36 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Glathull wrote:
[quote=Altirius Saldiaro]

But who knows? Maybe they will get farmed by mission runners in pvp fits instead of gankbait fits, and that would be an improvement for everyone.


Only if there are missions that need manual flying and overheat :D


You seem to assume people won't just pimp the ship to make it easyer. What's preventing people from building purple hawk when people build purple ravens?


Officer mods usually have higher fitting requirements so they only realistically fitable on battleships and capitals. Also there aren't any small or medium sized weapons with officer names.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Pandemic Unicorns
#36 - 2014-08-14 20:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You seem to assume people won't just pimp the ship to make it easyer. What's preventing people from building purple hawk when people build purple ravens?


The nados waiting outside their station might prove some deterrent.
Paranoid Loyd
#37 - 2014-08-14 21:37:35 UTC
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You seem to assume people won't just pimp the ship to make it easyer. What's preventing people from building purple hawk when people build purple ravens?


The nados waiting outside their station might prove some deterrent.


You're assuming the average mission runner would know what those Nados are sitting there for.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Savon Starfarer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-08-14 23:33:09 UTC
Great! +1 to this idea.
As a missioner doing l4' I think it's a great idea. We always have a specific missioning station where we tends to stick to anyway for each corp we have 5 standing or more, adding one more frigate as a permanent feature is not a big deal. Because unlike incursion, we don't have to mooove all the time. Frankly, in l4 all we do is shooting crosses, shoot more crosses, shooting big crosses, rinse and repeat those same missions tends to get stale and boring after a while. Occasionally, u really wanna get in fast ship to have change of pace, while not wasting time like going to do l1/l2.
Nice idea overall, keep it coming. Keep up the good work, ccp!
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