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Warp speed changes need a redo
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#61 - 2014-08-12 03:31:11 UTC
does nobody adapt to changes anymore or something?
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-08-12 03:49:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
does nobody adapt to changes anymore or something?

Everyone moved to HACs and caps

Wait, everyone was already in HACs and caps.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#63 - 2014-08-12 04:27:39 UTC
I agree, reverse it back, same number as before this patch.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2014-08-12 04:34:55 UTC
Spc One wrote:
I agree, reverse it back, same number as before this patch.


I can now warp much faster than assault frigates. That's not a good idea.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#65 - 2014-08-12 07:01:12 UTC
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:
tbh, i have no idea why smaller ships fly faster in eve. Sure smaller ships are more manoeuvrable, naturally, but faster.. i have my reservation.

The bigger the ship, the more muscle it should technically have (within a gravity well).

compare any animal you like.

Big cats are faster than smaller cats.
Big dogs are faster than small dogs.
Bigger birds are faster than smaller birds.
Large flightless birds are faster than smaller flightless birds.

If you wanted to be pedantic mass is meaningless in space anyway - something the size of the moon, something the size of an ant.. is all relational. If anything you'll expect the engines on a providence to unleash more torque than that of a frigate - and if mass is meaningless, more torque on the engines, more thrust means higher top speed.

But this is EvE, where a spud gun does the same damage as a 3000 kt nuke.

I put it down to a 'wizard did it'


http://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/killer_whale

EvE is more like being in water than being on land or in the air.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2014-08-12 10:15:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
does nobody adapt to changes anymore or something?



We want adaptation. But we want something given to the now much slower ships to justify them more. Just sit and accept things like an impending doom is not adapting. Battleships are now only used seriously when they travel trough titan bridges. They need some tweaks to justify them for operations that move the traditional way.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2014-08-12 10:18:36 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

DPS and EHP buffs are great and all, but I will be damned if I am going to fly BC's or bigger through more than one gate now in dynamic ways. Sure people will bring them to timer-based fights etc, but when did we decide that regular flying of BC's and bigger should be so fricken HEINOUS??

F



Well if the battleships are powerful enough to warrant the delay on their movement they will still be used. But as of now they are barely stronger than hacs, and weaker than t3. Is the same issue with command ships. They are barely strogner than t3 on link bonuses, so everyone uses t3 because of warp speed.

Slow warping things need to be significantly more powerful.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#68 - 2014-08-12 16:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
does nobody adapt to changes anymore or something?



We want adaptation. But we want something given to the now much slower ships to justify them more. Just sit and accept things like an impending doom is not adapting. Battleships are now only used seriously when they travel trough titan bridges. They need some tweaks to justify them for operations that move the traditional way.


We still fly them via gates and everything gets sent via a titan bridge if there is one available.

Also T3 are getting a nerf.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-08-12 16:40:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Spc One wrote:
I agree, reverse it back, same number as before this patch.


I can now warp much faster than assault frigates. That's not a good idea.


Nothing stopping AF rigging for it too.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#70 - 2014-08-12 16:45:56 UTC
afkalt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Spc One wrote:
I agree, reverse it back, same number as before this patch.


I can now warp much faster than assault frigates. That's not a good idea.


Nothing stopping AF rigging for it too.


They wont for the same reason they don't now. Its a bad idea and unnecessary.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2014-08-12 16:51:16 UTC
Surely a BS managing it isn't a problem then :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2014-08-12 16:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
afkalt wrote:
Surely a BS managing it isn't a problem then :)


Yes it is. Interceptor like battleships are not a good idea. The current system is fine, people just need to learn how to fit their ships.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#73 - 2014-08-12 17:03:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Spc One wrote:
I agree, reverse it back, same number as before this patch.


I can now warp much faster than assault frigates. That's not a good idea.


Nothing stopping AF rigging for it too.


They wont for the same reason they don't now. Its a bad idea and unnecessary.

I am yet to hear a good argument why BC's and BS's shouldn't be able to move around at base 2.7/3.0 au speeds to bring sexy back.

Even if you ascendancy or hyperspatial them, you are gimping their fits big time to do it (compared to standard slaves/crystals and trimarks/extenders), and still have the long align times to deal with...

Fully gimped for speed, you might do 7.4 AU, but a base Crow is still doing 8 AU with ridiculous align time...

Don't like that, and perhaps ascendancy implants themselves should be nerfed?

The key here is that BC's and BS's shouldn't suck to fly, and today they do. Bigger artillery pieces like dreads and caps, sure I can buy the thinking around slowly rolling (or bridging) those around, but BC's and BS's are front line ships. Remove the suck from the hull, don't make me rig/implant to counter the suck; those should be 'boosters', not 'suck mitigators'

F


Would you like to know more?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2014-08-12 17:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

I am yet to hear a good argument why BC's and BS's shouldn't be able to move around at base 2.7/3.0 au speeds to bring sexy back.



All battleships can hit over 8au with your plan. The mach will get over 12au.


This is not a good idea and this is from someone who ONLY uses battleships in pvp.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#75 - 2014-08-12 17:21:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

I am yet to hear a good argument why BC's and BS's shouldn't be able to move around at base 2.7/3.0 au speeds to bring sexy back.


All battleships can hit over 8au with your plan. The mach will get over 12au.

This is not a good idea.

All smaller ships can still go way faster if selfsame rigged/implanted. The delta in speeds remains, especially when you concede that align times would remain the same.

Fitting said BC's and BS's that way would severely gimp their fits to achieve those speeds. (I also hazard to guess that not many would choose to so-fit a Mach and take it to battle, and would only let you pull their slave sets and trimarks from their cold dead hands...) Theoretical is not always reality.

Finally, you incorrectly assume complimentary changes to ascendancies/hyperspatials themselves aren't on the table. Off the cuff, I might suggest you also reduce the effectiveness of ascendancies/hyperspatials based on ship mass, once you get the base hull speeds right....

Which today they aren't. BC's and BS's just suck, and they shouldn't. They aren't fricken dreads or caps.

F

Would you like to know more?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2014-08-12 17:43:33 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

I am yet to hear a good argument why BC's and BS's shouldn't be able to move around at base 2.7/3.0 au speeds to bring sexy back.


All battleships can hit over 8au with your plan. The mach will get over 12au.

This is not a good idea.

All smaller ships can still go way faster if selfsame rigged/implanted. The delta in speeds remains, especially when you concede that align times would remain the same.

F


Battleships can afford to lose the rigs to do so unlike the smaller ships. Align times are also no issue given that I often beat cruisers into warp (and many frigates).

Also nerfing ascendancies/hyperspatials for literally everything else in the game is a ****** move to pull just because you don't want to make sacrifices when fitting your battleship.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#77 - 2014-08-12 18:03:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
baltec1 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

I am yet to hear a good argument why BC's and BS's shouldn't be able to move around at base 2.7/3.0 au speeds to bring sexy back.


All battleships can hit over 8au with your plan. The mach will get over 12au.

This is not a good idea.

All smaller ships can still go way faster if selfsame rigged/implanted. The delta in speeds remains, especially when you concede that align times would remain the same.

F

Battleships can afford to lose the rigs to do so unlike the smaller ships. Align times are also no issue given that I often beat cruisers into warp (and many frigates).

Also nerfing ascendancies/hyperspatials for literally everything else in the game is a ****** move to pull just because you don't want to make sacrifices when fitting your battleship.

Who are you to say battleships can afford to lose rigs compared to smaller ships, thats pretty arrogant. I assure you the increased buffer from trimarks/slaves are of great importance to many BS pilots.

(I think perhaps you meant to say you were a clown-car pilot instead of a BS pilot?...)

Also, unless you are just trolling at this point (or willfully ignorant/dyslexic/etc), I clearly suggested hyperspatial/ascendancy nerfs to address your whiny 'BS's would go to fast' concerns, could be done on a mass basis, so how does that equate to 'nerfing literally everything'? Also, weren't people able to to move ships bigger than Cruisers around before ascendancy implants were available by your 'nothing to see here' mentality?...

I tried to follow your 'logic' dude, but its pretty clear you've entered the troll zone.

F

Would you like to know more?
Matius Udan
Padecains Exploration and Recon Inc
#78 - 2014-08-12 19:26:46 UTC
Personally I think big combat ships should have a decent warp speed as you can assume bigger engines but take longer to accelerate to their top speed due to their bigger mass. Large non combat ships shouldn't warp quickly as there is no tactical or strategic advantage. However deepspace transports or anything made with a military purpose could have faster warp speed with mass related acceleration.
LT Alter
Ryba.
White Squall.
#79 - 2014-08-12 19:31:46 UTC
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

I am yet to hear a good argument why BC's and BS's shouldn't be able to move around at base 2.7/3.0 au speeds to bring sexy back.


There have been plenty of good arguments, you just refuse to listen to them.

Battleships are still used, I'm sure there's a chart some where to prove this. There isn't any real problem here, battleships are powerful and hard to kill when used correctly, being slow is just a drawback to their strength as ships.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#80 - 2014-08-12 19:42:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Battleships can afford to lose the rigs to do so unlike the smaller ships. Align times are also no issue given that I often beat cruisers into warp (and many frigates).

Also nerfing ascendancies/hyperspatials for literally everything else in the game is a ****** move to pull just because you don't want to make sacrifices when fitting your battleship.


Some battleships can. Most can't. This issue only reinforces the current state where the Megathron is the only BS used for shooting things (as opposed to the Armageddon and Scorpion) that is worth flying at all. 8 lows and trivial fitting means it's easy to make up for the loss of rigs, you can't do this on Amarr BS (needs fitting/cap mods) or Minmatar BS. (doesn't have the slots to begin with)