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[Hyperion] Nestor Tweaks

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Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2014-08-12 04:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
Galphii wrote:
Obviously the ship is going to need more done to it in future to make it worth using, and more than that, make it something unique. It should bring something new to the game and not just be another expensive mission runner (nor should it try to do everything half-assed like it does now).

Just gonna put this out there:
Battleship-sized "Light" carrier (no jump drive though, relax)

Role Bonus:
· 50% bonus to Remote Capacitor Transfer amount
· 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
· 200% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Capacitor Transfer range
· 40,000m3 SMA. (two frigates)
· 5000m3 corp hanger

I'm not sure what the future plans for Fighter drones are (is the Gecko the template for future fighter sizes?), but it might be interesting to allow this ship to use five of them, as it could then send fighters attached to other ships and function as an exploration hub, or mothership.


I could back this, id use that fleet hanger purely for spare sentries and geckos, SLOWCAT ftw

But in terms of Balance:

Role Bonus:
· 50% bonus to Remote Capacitor Transfer amount
· 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
· 200% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Capacitor Transfer range
· 40,000m3 SMA. (two frigates) [i dont agree with this, should stay at the proposed 5,000m3 for refitting purely)
· 5000m3 fleet hanger [reduce this to 500m3 or 1,000m3 because 5,000m3 is half a carrier fleet hanger and doesn't seem right]

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
MukkBarovian
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#142 - 2014-08-12 04:27:03 UTC
The Nestor as is could be good, but it needs to be cheaper to be worth using over the alternatives. It would need to be no more than 1 bil, and preferably much cheaper.
Echo Gemini
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2014-08-12 06:41:06 UTC
Umm ... I can see what you guys try to achieve with Nestor, but I believe it addresses a small niche in terms of gameplay. I've never seen a Nestor flying so far. I know it exists and I know that some people buy it. In terms of usefulness, yeah tweak it, you could give it gas mining bonus. It won't make a difference.

Anyway, you could identify in-game players that use Nestor's and ask them for feedback. On forums everyone has a different opinion.
Taupwnz
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#144 - 2014-08-12 06:43:11 UTC
Alundil wrote:

If the idea is to blops bridge a bil+ logistics platform why not just bridge a Sin instead?

SP matters. For Sin you need way more skills, than for Nestor. So as a newbie in BL drops you can fly only in what? Stealth Bomber?
Tovanis
Wolf Pack Industries.
Pandemic Horde
#145 - 2014-08-12 08:37:07 UTC
definately something to perhaps boost slightly the potential of logi (as the current bonuses help, but could maybe use some more love?)..... I have 2 nestors, one i have setup for remote armor repping when doing missions with my corp mates, and the other i use at the moment (just merely experimenting with the other nestor) as a drone boat, but as i said, i am still experimenting with it. However, the logi application is nice, given that it can do some pretty good logi and still have a chance at surviving. :D
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#146 - 2014-08-12 08:37:26 UTC
Oh, and if it hasn't been mentioned already, it will probably have to be banned from the Alliance Tournament now.

Being able to refit is gamebreakingly overpowered in that particular context.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Maxwell Smiles
Exiled Kings
Pain And Compliance
#147 - 2014-08-12 08:53:22 UTC
Turn it into a True Exploration Ship Give it a POS Bubble Say 12km Wide and a fuel bay that can last up to a week and make the SMA large enough to hold a T3, mining barge, a covert ops and a bomber. People can then fly into a wormhole pos the ship up scan down sites jump into the t3 and run them turning it into a true exploration ship. When there done they can they can then jump out.
mr stephenson
Dodgy at Best
#148 - 2014-08-12 09:20:19 UTC
someone mentioned earlier that when warping to hack sites the issue with this ship is that its to slow to get to hack containers.
would a bonus to analyzer range work ? i know the ship still has to reach the container to loot but u can be hacking while approaching it.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#149 - 2014-08-12 10:10:19 UTC
Maxwell Smiles wrote:
Turn it into a True Exploration Ship Give it a POS Bubble Say 12km Wide and a fuel bay that can last up to a week and make the SMA large enough to hold a T3, mining barge, a covert ops and a bomber. People can then fly into a wormhole pos the ship up scan down sites jump into the t3 and run them turning it into a true exploration ship. When there done they can they can then jump out.



Just load an inty with a small tower does the same job for cheaper

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#150 - 2014-08-12 10:32:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Oh, and if it hasn't been mentioned already, it will probably have to be banned from the Alliance Tournament now.

Being able to refit is gamebreakingly overpowered in that particular context.

This update is after the AT isn't it? So that's more a note for next year assuming they keep it.
Rammel Kas
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2014-08-12 11:10:44 UTC
I like the idea of re-imagining the Nestor. Yes the price is a road block to even trying it out in different roles. Let alone trying to convince any smaller alliance FC to pay SRP for something like this on a regular basis.

A mini-carrier that doesn't require years to train into can maybe turn the cliff that currently stands in front of new alliances into a more approachable slope. While it would still obviously play second fiddle if there is an actual capital on field. At least the side with the Nestors won't just have to blue ball or simply dock up or leave without giving it a go, assuming other factors are about equal or approachable.
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#152 - 2014-08-12 11:33:06 UTC
Here you go peeps. Go grab three of these and an all cap xfer Guardian. Set up large xfers into the Guardian. Guardian xfers back out into the Nestors and enjoy having the equivalent of eight Guardians worth of rep. Will be good to see how far down in price these come. I've always wanted one but couldn't justify it at current costs.

Note: Is allergic to dreadnoughts.

[Nestor, Nestor fit]

Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Micro Jump Drive
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Targeting System Subcontroller I
colera deldios
#153 - 2014-08-12 11:57:04 UTC
BayneNothos wrote:
Here you go peeps. Go grab three of these and an all cap xfer Guardian. Set up large xfers into the Guardian. Guardian xfers back out into the Nestors and enjoy having the equivalent of eight Guardians worth of rep. Will be good to see how far down in price these come. I've always wanted one but couldn't justify it at current costs.

Note: Is allergic to dreadnoughts.

[Nestor, Nestor fit]

Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Micro Jump Drive
ECCM - Magnetometric II
ECCM - Magnetometric II
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II
Large Remote Armor Repairer II

Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Large Targeting System Subcontroller I



Yea this will work perfect for the -5 Class WH
Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#154 - 2014-08-12 12:26:05 UTC
In my opinion it is remaining relatively "meh" for now. It would have had pretty nice niche if mobile depot would not be in a game but with mobile depot being pretty damn cheap and pretty low volume the nestors refitting ability is only relevant in a very small niche where you cant wait around the mobile depot timer or want to refit multiple ships with very very low subspace speed (i.e., cant scatter in reasonable speed to deploy their own mobile depot) in close proximity in a hurry but do not have a carrier at hand but happen to have a nestor.

Just get around to making it a T1 blops already. Rest of the sisters ships are equivalents of t1 cov ops and t1 recon ships so making Nestor a T1 version of the BLOPS would make sense. Then at least it would have the blops bridge and jump drive to ninja around (although that would be pretty much useless for the wormholes).

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2014-08-12 12:28:46 UTC
Again, these changes don't go far enough IMO. The sig radius change is insignificant and should be reduced even further, and the mass should be reduced more.

Btw Fozzie, it's funny that wormhole space needed fundamental changes to justify the Nestor.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#156 - 2014-08-12 12:42:44 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We have another set of balance changes to talk about today. We've been keeping a close eye on the Nestor battleship and we're planning to make a few small but significant changes to it in the Hyperion release.

The most significant change by far is that we are increasing the drop rate of the Drone Nexus chips that can be converted to Sisters of EVE ship BPCs quite dramatically. These should now drop much more often from all types of "Sentient" rogue drone commander NPCs, especially from the Sentient Alvus battleships.
This should go a long way to helping bring the price of the Nestor down from its current levels.

Secondly, we are adding a new function to the Nestor that fits well with its role as a group support vessel. We are giving the Nestor a 5000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay that will allow friendly ships to refit when they are nearby.

And finally, we are reducing the Nestor's signature radius a bit from the current 465m to 420m.

We know that some of you will be unsatisfied with the fact that we're not adding covert cloak or jump drive capabilities or some other completely new role to the Nestor with this pass. We won't rule out the possibility of future changes but we are first going to observe the results of these adjustments in Hyperion.

As always, we welcome your feedback in this thread.

Thanks
-Fozzie



Still garbage.

Im a wormholler and an FC.

I will not take 2 nestors over 2 guardians, or over 2 proteuses in my PvP fleet. Why would I? To refit mid-combat? Lol? Have you seen speed of fights in wormholes? Engagements are over in 5min or less, its not your tidi null-sec brawl where pilots have all the time in the world to refit their 5mil hp super-carriers.

For PvE, I'd have to be ******** to use this trashcan to scan and hack sites instead of you know, a scanning/hacking tengu.

In short, epic fail.

Go back to drawing board, do 2 things:

1) Redesign visual look COMPLETELY.
2) Completely rethink roles.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2014-08-12 14:34:34 UTC
Nestor doe snto need a boost. What is needed is a nerf to logistic cruiser (T1 and T2). Suddenly you will start loving the nestor.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Corben Arctus
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#158 - 2014-08-12 14:49:23 UTC
I know a certain multiboxer who will be happy about this Pirate
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#159 - 2014-08-12 15:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Noxisia Arkana
After my initial excitement wore off this change doesn't do much to get people to use it...

I did some refitting with the balances in mind and even if it dropped to 500 mil its role could be better filled by a T1 logistics cruiser (repair), and if you fit it for damage its still nowhere near the other pirate battleships, the lasers do a pathetic amount of DPS, the drones do better. If you try to fit it to balance DPS against rep power, a domi is still a better choice.

Again, while refitting is neat: I have to ask what's the point when mobile depots are so cheap? The extra storage room may be nice but I can't think of a reason I'd need the space unless I'm going to fill it with cap boosters which would be niche at best.

Without more lows, power grid, or cap/cap recharge this guy doesn't do anything well enough to warrant inclusion in any fleet or solo activity...
Mac Zehn
Perkone
Caldari State
#160 - 2014-08-12 15:15:03 UTC
Give it a covert jump drive and allow it to fill a logi roll for black op bs gangs.