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Legion changes: A Christmas wishlist
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Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#1 - 2011-12-08 17:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Teras Lakkos
Lets get right to it.

Just delete drone sub and give us another laser one. No love for drones you say? Instead give assault sub and the new laser sub a drone bay. Current laser sub = zealot (no drones), new laser sub = navy omen (drones) and last time i checked sacrilege had a drone bay Roll. Loki doesn't seem to have drone issues and we are 2nd in drones...

Covert sub: For the love of all things stop giving 1 bonus amarr ships cap use (everyone just fits autocannons and they work better Shocked) plus your war on the low slots of the legion. Compare T3 dps with covert sub, who is the outlier?

And that does it. Too extreme? I don't think so.

edit: posted on page 2:


Wanting drones and useful offensive subs is part of the problem, but the FUNDAMENTAL problem with the legion is the slot allocation by subsystems. Despite what ccp seems to think, amarr boats need maximum low slots. The legion can fit up to 7 low slots. Pretty good right? Wait a second lets look at the subsystem options.

Assuming fitting for max low slots (7): the legion has 4 subsystem categories that can take away a low slot (there are only 5 categories Ugh)
How does this compare?
Proteus (7 max lows ): 2 categories can take away a low
Loki (6 max lows): 3 categories can take away a low (It is suppose to be able to field a shield tank!)
Tengu: who cares it shield tanks

But wait there's more.
Proteus can field max lows and 6 guns
Loki can field max lows and 6 guns
Legion can't field max lows and 6 guns Roll


Dear CCP: fix my legion.
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2011-12-09 03:01:09 UTC
i just got a legion and got subs to 4/5....and yeah its kind of dissappointing. Especially the offensive subs. The HAM one is missing a bonus and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it....
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-12-09 03:17:32 UTC
HAM legion needs to be better than a HAM tengu.

Pulse legion needs to be miles ahead of the zealot to justify the additional cost.
Illrean
Old Prospectors Roid Alliance for Harvesting
#4 - 2011-12-09 04:49:52 UTC
river Zateki wrote:
i just got a legion and got subs to 4/5....and yeah its kind of dissappointing. Especially the offensive subs. The HAM one is missing a bonus and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it....


Missiles are a secondary weapon for Amarr, that is why they don't have three bonuses on the missile sub.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-09 05:28:58 UTC
Illrean wrote:
river Zateki wrote:
i just got a legion and got subs to 4/5....and yeah its kind of dissappointing. Especially the offensive subs. The HAM one is missing a bonus and the covert one made me cry. I got something like 200 dps with it....


Missiles are a secondary weapon for Amarr, that is why they don't have three bonuses on the missile sub.


Thats the worst argument ever, why would they even bother designing one if its useless?
Salvia Olima
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-09 07:36:08 UTC
Give a 50m3 dronebay to the hull and it's done.
Twisted Ideals
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-12-09 11:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Twisted Ideals
am i the only one who has a big problem to understand what the Op is complaining about?
anyone care to give me a translation? i like legions
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-12-09 13:02:46 UTC
Twisted Ideals wrote:
am i the only one who has a big problem to understand what the Op is complaining about?
anyone care to give me a translation? i like legions


legions are beyond awful for anything other than neuting.
that clear enough for you?

There is no Bob.

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Twisted Ideals
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2011-12-09 13:05:30 UTC
Teras Lakkos wrote:


Covert sub: For the love of all things stop giving 1 bonus amarr ships cap use (everyone just fits autocannons and they work better Shocked) plus your war on the low slots of the legion. Compare T3 dps with covert sub, who is the outlier?



not clear yet...
hiporiko
Hyena Capital Management
#10 - 2011-12-09 13:17:14 UTC
Mine works fine.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#11 - 2011-12-09 13:43:10 UTC
Twisted Ideals wrote:
Teras Lakkos wrote:


Covert sub: For the love of all things stop giving 1 bonus amarr ships cap use (everyone just fits autocannons and they work better Shocked) plus your war on the low slots of the legion. Compare T3 dps with covert sub, who is the outlier?



not clear yet...



Not our fault you can't understand

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-12-09 13:51:50 UTC
I am not a Legion pilot but a Proteus pilot and I will say here what a say in many of these threads, many of the strategic cruiser subsystems require balancing, even if you feel your version of the ship is fine some subsystems are just not used.

Although I cannot fly a Legion I often look to compare capability against the Proteus so have done a fair bit EFT warrioring Plus I have ok Amarr cruiser skills anyway.

Defensive

Adaptive Augmenter - 7.5% Cap reduction and at least 50% bonus to armour repair range, I understand the reluctance to replace logistics ships but this sub should at least be viable and it is the cap use and range that holds this back.

Offensive
On paper you look to have a good spread of capability but some are just subpar. Generally I would up the drone compliment

Drone Synthesis Projector - 75mbit bandwidth

Liquid Crystal Magnifiers - 25mbut drone bay and bandwidth

Assault Optimisation - A third missile bonus probably explosion velocity

Electronics

Energy Parasitic Complex - don’t see this used a lot either so how about a further 25mbit drone bay and bandwidth. Combined with the Drone sub you now have 100mbit bandwidth, it can also be used to buff the other offensive subs but you are more likely to use the weapon hard points than neuts, still this would give a Laser Legion 50mbit bandwidth and give the covert sub some drones.

Prop Subs

Wake Limiter - Proteus has this, it is not used. The bonus needs to be more like the Inty bonus; it is already the slowest subsystem.

Those are my ideas anyway, whatever happens don’t just buff the legion look at all subsystems for all ships
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-12-09 13:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
The Legion has generally suboptimal slot layouts. You want 3-4 mids and MORE lows than mids when you have the choice. 4 mids for cap intensive setups, 3 for the others. There are many subsystem combinations that violate this simple rule. I would like to see that changed. Despite several subsystems that imitate the Curse or Pilgrim, the Legion is a different beast: it never shield tanks and it doesn't need midslots to make use of TDs either, the extra mid(s) often feel suboptimal.

HAM Legion compares a bit poorly to a HAM Tengu, but it's not the slot layout, it's in the offensive subsystems.

The Drone and Covert Legion both have the horrible lone laser cap usage bonus that has never worked well for any ship. It's really a shame.
Kahz Niverrah
Distinguished Johnsons
#14 - 2011-12-09 14:50:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahz Niverrah
Salvia Olima wrote:
Give a 50m3 dronebay to the hull and it's done.

Pretty much this.

I don't always post on the forums, but when I do, I post with my main.
Teras Lakkos
SuperMassive Torque
#15 - 2011-12-09 16:03:38 UTC
Kahz Niverrah wrote:
Salvia Olima wrote:
Give a 50m3 dronebay to the hull and it's done.

Pretty much this.


50/50 with assault sub and 25/25 on laser sub. Cov ops and drone sub will still suck but who cares they don't get used. My golden brick needs drones!
Aestivalis Saidrian
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#16 - 2011-12-09 16:14:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Aestivalis Saidrian
Howabout some ******* bug fixes.


So, fun story, guys, if you have some free time. Keep a 10MN afterburner with the Fuel Catalyst. Now, swap subsystems. Any of them. Emergent Locus for Targeting Sub, whatever.

Now, go outside, turn on Afterburner. Last time I did this, the 10MN AB decided to eat 482 Cap, not 80.

As for subsystems...

I like the Laser Subsystem as is, though that's just me.

The Drone one REALLY needs a change badly. You get better DPS/Alpha using Arty then Beams. What?
Elindreal
Planetary Interactors
#17 - 2011-12-09 19:55:10 UTC
comparing ham legion to ham tengu isnt completely a 1:1 comparison

i fly a ham tengu and with the range bonus on the subsys it's excellent at floating around the edge of point range, outside of web so it can keep up its transversal because otherwise a webbed tengu = a dead tengu

in comparison, a ham legion suffers a bit less dps and less range, however its tank is much better. it is essential a ham brawler, like the other khanid ships. due to the lack of a range bonus, it must orbit much tighter, but on the bright side it doesn't suffer from shield tank sig radius bloating.
as well, i personally figure the neut subsystem goes hand in hand with the ham subsys as medium neuts are just about the same range as the unbonus'd hams.

so now you have a close range neut/ham brawler, somewhat like the Vangel
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2011-12-10 00:20:53 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
1) Legion Chassis Optimization is useless. Everybody fits an AB or MWD on their Legions and with that the Fuel Catalyst gives better align times and higher top speed. This subsystem needs a different bonus.


um...no...
chasis opt sub is for when you fit a mwd, which should be always.

There is no Bob.

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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#19 - 2011-12-10 01:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
small default dronebay +1
make covops sub somehow useful

and please make it so that you can *unfit* subsystems WITHOUT killing the rigs (for all tech 3s). Currently you have to buy one hull (+ a full set of subsystems + one spare set) for every fitting you want to fly since tech II rigs lock the hull to a specific fitting -> swapping subs is useless in this case.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-12-10 03:22:25 UTC
Yes, Give my precious Legion a boost!!! PLZ!
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