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[Hyperion] Nestor Tweaks

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Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#121 - 2014-08-11 23:50:48 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
So I am not sure how often the nestor is used for the hacking stuff. In my opinion a battleships is not really suited for that type of operation, nor do I know how effective the +10 Virus bonus is. I would recommend making all battleship classes focused onto Combat type usage, not utility like hacking. That being said I would look into removing the +10 virus thing and give it a Cap usage reductions for armor repairers or energy turrets. I would keep the scan probe bonus for its amazing combat usage.

It definitely could use a cap bonus for what could be considered its primary role. It's starting to look more like the 'hospitalier' ship it should have been from the get-go.

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#122 - 2014-08-12 00:04:59 UTC
this is the nestor i want to see

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% electronic warfare/ combat utility drone effectiveness and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
750% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Capacitor Transmitter range
100% to large energy and hybrid turret damage

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 4 turrets

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#123 - 2014-08-12 00:08:04 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
this is the nestor i want to see

Amarr Battleship Bonuses:
4% Armor resistances per level

Gallente Battleship Bonuses:
10% electronic warfare/ combat utility drone effectiveness and hitpoints per level

Role bonuses:
50% bonus to remote armor repairer amount
750% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Capacitor Transmitter range
100% to large energy and hybrid turret damage

Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 4 turrets


I support this. Ewar drone bonus is new and interesting (mmmmm bonus'd heavy neut drones).
Pro TIps
Doomheim
#124 - 2014-08-12 00:19:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Secondly, we are adding a new function to the Nestor that fits well with its role as a group support vessel. We are giving the Nestor a 5000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay that will allow friendly ships to refit when they are nearby.

I welcome this feature, however, I was a little disappointed when I looked up the volumes of frigates and found that, nope, they are too big to fit in a 5000m3 SMB. Only a shuttle will fit.

I was hoping a salvaging ship (e.g. thrasher) or relic/data-bonused frigate hull could fit in it. This would allow a fleet-mate to utilize a stowed ship for grabbing up loot when roaming around W-space doing PVE things. Why? Rigs, of course.

Even so, I have a Nestor now and I use it in its intended fleet-support role successfully. This buff makes it a little more useful for rearming the fleet with fresh drones, switching weapons, etc. as intended, without each person having to go launch a mobile depot (trivial but time-consuming.)
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2014-08-12 00:21:16 UTC
Give it a blops jump drive at the very least.

With this change, Nestor is literally going to be a thanatos with waaaaay less ehp, less dps, an sma that can't actually hold anything, and no jump drive.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#126 - 2014-08-12 00:53:54 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
Saisin wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
interesting adding some genuine uniqueness .. what it also tells us is that Rise is far too conservative with changes .. since every change he does needs further changes later on down the line ... please give him a kick up the arse for us please

Being conservative with changes is exactly the way to go with their new release patterns..


not if it doesn't meet its end goal


What end goal?
Your end goal of wanting to use it?

The end goal is to see the statistical usage of this specific ship rise to a level CCP deems acceptable.
Doing small changes and watching what happens will tell if the end goal is achieved.
If not, then more tweaks until this end goal is met and the ship finds its niche...

It will not be told by you nor me...


you don't have too take my word for it .. just read the HAC thread .... ishtars will still be used exactly as they are in the same way in the same numbers ... so tell me how does that meet the end goal here??
people would like to use other ships .. but when ishtars are so OP why would you??


I do agree with you.. Ishtars are overpowered, and it is possible that they remain that way after Hyperion. I can't judge...

Still, this is the right way to approach the changes rather than doing a broad strike and possibly open a new set of problems. CCP have access to data that we do not have and can measure the effects of the changes, and will do another tweak in October if necessary.

But at least they will not swing the balances anymore in aWide fashion, and with often unattended consequences... At least they can more precisely measure the results now.

CCP has simply become more agile, and this is great for all of us, even if we have to suffer the ishtars dominance for one or two more releases...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#127 - 2014-08-12 01:09:29 UTC
Its gone from interesting to "oh hey well thats handy".
colera deldios
#128 - 2014-08-12 01:19:23 UTC
Man some of you people are stupid on a brand new level. A SMA and those Bonuses for holy ******* sake there is no role for this ship. It's not going to be PVP ship with those stats it's a crap 1.5b Logistic ship with hacking/probing bonuses...

Someone threw a dart at some bonuses and this crapola came out.

1) For PVE it's useless because in every aspect it's outperformed by other ships at smaller price tag. It won't be used in Incursions it won't be used in L1-L5 Missions in any space 99% of people won't be using this thing in WH space because why on earth would you for RR setups there are cheaper and more effective alternatives. You won't be using it for Exploration or 0.0 Anomalies because pretty much every other T1 Hull out performs it.

2) For PVP it's useless for fleet doctrines it makes no sense, for solo it won't be used because Rokh & Hyperion are better at that and the last time those were used was 2006. In every other PVP aspect it's outperformed by every other BS. I highly doubt someone will be brawling and using these as logis unless they are very stupid.

3) For Relic/Data Why on earth would you use this things for relics/data sites you always land 50-70km off gl spending time moving between cans you will just a be a golden target. In WH theres 10 ships 5x cheaper that can do Relic/Data sites more effectively than Nestor.

In conclusion: This ship is above useless... It won't be used in any category and no bullshit SMA size will change that.

You can either:

A) Make it a passive shield buffer ship, something that can do all non-combat WH sites solo like: WH Relic/Data/Gas/Ghost sites this way solo players have a all round platform for raiding WH creating extra content. I'm sure WH Residents will be delighted at a Nestor kill and people would be willing to risk them for the prospect of making WH income.

For this you need to change:
- Armour bonus to Shield resistance bonus
- Laser bonus to Shield regeneration bonus
- Remove Remote Repair bonuses add Gas mining bonus (cycle reduction or increased amount)

- Give it increased cargo bag (something like 1500~)

B) Make it a PVP ship and as is at the moment it's viable to be Black Ops Logistic ship. Now Black Ops are hot drop ships and should not be used for brawls so they should not have easy logistic ship but if someone is willing to fork over 1.5b for the ship the WHY THE **** NOT.

Remove Relic/Data bonuses and add ability to bridge/jump to covert cyno. Say you drop on a ratting carrier they escalate by bringing in 2-3 more and some subcaps so it's now a minor skirmish without logis you won't stand a chance but with 2-3 Nestors on the field you might.

C) Complete overhaul..

D) Simply delete it from the game

In any case PRICE REDUCTION & 5000 or 5000000 SMA will do jack **** for this ship.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#129 - 2014-08-12 01:21:08 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
How about a cloaked velocity bonus so we can use t2 cloaks without going super slow.


I would spend the extra 5m and get a faction one in that case, and that goes hand and hand with my proposal for making it a BLOPS a few pages back

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
colera deldios
#130 - 2014-08-12 01:21:49 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
To be honest, I still can't think of a reason to use one. In almost any situation barring highsec, you could just use a carrier instead. And in highsec, you can use the far more common Orca instead.

If it cost 350mil then I could maybe see using it, but I really doubt you are going to buff the drop rate *that* drastically.

Comparing a battleship to an Orca and a carrier, I think the differences are quite obvious. I expect to see this used a lot in wormholes where carriers cannot be used to easily roam about. Think of it as a mini carrier.


Stupidest assumption ever. It's much easier to roam WHs in T3, Cruisers, Covops and Carriers/Dreads move between them just fine and Nestor will in no case ever be a replace or even a bad substitute for a Carrier in WH or 0.0 or LS or HS. It's a useless ship and no amount in the SMA will help it.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#131 - 2014-08-12 01:25:18 UTC
and in 3 months you will see the same stats .. no one is using this ship because ...

no covert ops cloack .... good luck again ccp .. by the way seen ay changes in the drones use ?? Roll

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Bjor Ambramotte
Boomer Humor
Snuffed Out
#132 - 2014-08-12 01:34:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Bjor Ambramotte
@CCP Fozzie

In response to Jayne's concern, could the refitting service be limited to Low Sec, Null Sec, and Wormholes? That would keep this "neat" ability and maybe drive a few Nestors from the safety of 0m from a highsec station.

Can't wait to see the art for the requisite SoE shuttle!
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#133 - 2014-08-12 02:17:11 UTC
I say this on behalf of CCP: for everyone asking for a Black Ops or Cloaking bonus, **** OFF, NO IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2014-08-12 02:18:44 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
I say this on behalf of CCP: for everyone asking for a Black Ops or Cloaking bonus, **** OFF, NO IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

So how much does CCP pay you to speak for them?
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#135 - 2014-08-12 02:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
The Nestor should be geared towards wormhole space.
As such, these are the traits and qualities that would make it useful - and the cost moot. What you end up with is a medium-DPS "mothership" that can extend life in wormhole space. It has an abysmal align time and speed, and even with a Covert Ops Cloak it still has to uncloak to utilize the clone vat bay, ship maintenance bay or remote repair abilities.

Attributes:
· 6(-1) high, 6 medium, 7(+1) low; no turrets (-5)
· Ship Maintenance Bay Capacity … 5,000 m3
· Maximum Jump Clones … 6
· Fuel Bay Capacity … 1000 m3

Gallente Battleship bonus:
· 10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and dmage

Amarr Battleship bonus:
· 4% bonus to all armour resistances

Role Bonus:
· Can fit Clone Vat Bay
· 95% reduction in Clone Vay Bay powergrid requirement
· 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
· 200% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer range
· Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device
· Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 15 seconds

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#136 - 2014-08-12 03:17:45 UTC
neat twist. Nice work +1
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2014-08-12 03:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Grunnax Aurelius
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. We have another set of balance changes to talk about today. We've been keeping a close eye on the Nestor battleship and we're planning to make a few small but significant changes to it in the Hyperion release.

The most significant change by far is that we are increasing the drop rate of the Drone Nexus chips that can be converted to Sisters of EVE ship BPCs quite dramatically. These should now drop much more often from all types of "Sentient" rogue drone commander NPCs, especially from the Sentient Alvus battleships.
This should go a long way to helping bring the price of the Nestor down from its current levels.

Secondly, we are adding a new function to the Nestor that fits well with its role as a group support vessel. We are giving the Nestor a 5000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay that will allow friendly ships to refit when they are nearby.

And finally, we are reducing the Nestor's signature radius a bit from the current 465m to 420m.

We know that some of you will be unsatisfied with the fact that we're not adding covert cloak or jump drive capabilities or some other completely new role to the Nestor with this pass. We won't rule out the possibility of future changes but we are first going to observe the results of these adjustments in Hyperion.

As always, we welcome your feedback in this thread.

Thanks
-Fozzie


Thank you for using my idea of the Refitting service from my Nestor thread a couple weeks ago aswell as the sig radius issue.

Bring on the Sub-Cap Slowcat

Now just give its a 200% cap transfer range aswell, go on doit, pretty please.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#138 - 2014-08-12 03:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Galphii
Obviously the ship is going to need more done to it in future to make it worth using, and more than that, make it something unique. It should bring something new to the game and not just be another expensive mission runner (nor should it try to do everything half-assed like it does now).

Just gonna put this out there:
Battleship-sized "Light" carrier (no jump drive though, relax)

Role Bonus:
· 50% bonus to Remote Capacitor Transfer amount
· 50% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer amount
· 200% bonus to Remote Armor Repairer and Remote Capacitor Transfer range
· 20,000m3 SMA. (one frigate)
· 2000m3 corp hanger*

I'm not sure what the future plans for Fighter drones are (is the Gecko the template for future fighter sizes?), but it might be interesting to allow this ship to use five of them, as it could then send fighters attached to other ships and function as an exploration hub, or mothership.

In terms of how the Sister's fleet operates, they have a scouting frigate, a powerful cruiser (which can also scout, but slower), and they can pave the way for this heavier exploration hub ship. It can repair and refit the smaller vessels and provide support in tougher fights. It doesn't need to probe or hack sites itself, but it can be a powerful support vessel for the exploration role (and therefore useful in wormholes too!)

*edited

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#139 - 2014-08-12 03:43:42 UTC
I would like 25s off the recharge time, as this allows a perfectly fit nestor to run a DC2, LAR, ENAM and 100MN AB and do so stably with every other module being a cap module, no implants and all relevent skills 5 and all modules t2 without the insane neutability of a capacitor flux coil.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Kirluin
#140 - 2014-08-12 04:06:55 UTC
Hmm. With 2 seconds of lolfitting in EFT I got a 7 large rep, 100k ehp, 607 dps, cap stable nestor. with afterburner, 7 minutes of cap. T2 fit no bling except for geckos. 518 dps with gardes.

Can travel in hisec or wormholes, doesn't need a cyno alt, can roam with any fleet, and you don't need to multibox logi (ugh).

it's a great support for the kinds of small fleets I usually run with (though i would fit it differently for that.) It's not worth 1.6 bil, but I'd take a good look at it in the 500-600m range for my crew.

It's not great for every purpose (squarely aimed at small fleet support where a carrier doesn't fit), but it doesn't take much imagination to see where it would be a great option.

My only suggestion to CCP would be: don't be afraid of the fitting service. with the introduction of the mobile depot it's more of a nice convenience. Let it hold a frigate and you have a very nice"rule breaker" of a faction ship.