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Nestor battleship disallowed in Alliance Tournament XII

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-08-11 17:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Gargant
Hello everyone. Due to the upcoming changes to the Nestor battleship announced here, the Nestor will not be allowed in Alliance Tournament XII.

We understand that rule changes at this point aren't ideal, but since the use of Remote Reps on the Nestor was already not allowed we do not expect that this will interfere with any competitive setups.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2014-08-11 17:26:34 UTC
Any thoughts of allowing the Nestor as a logi ship in the future? It seems kind of biased to exclude a ship.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2014-08-11 17:29:47 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Any thoughts of allowing the Nestor as a logi ship in the future? It seems kind of biased to exclude a ship.


We exclude a lot of ships that would lead to a less exciting and varied tournament environment. In general, we have a lot of rules that limit tanking potential since a completely tank focused tournament would be bad for everyone involved.

This is also the reason why we no longer allow multiple logistics cruisers, for instance.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#4 - 2014-08-11 17:39:01 UTC

Damnit... I've already modified a dozen setups to take advantage of refitting on the field...
roigon
TURN LEFT
#5 - 2014-08-11 17:42:10 UTC
Fozzie, I know it's probably not you. But it would be really nice if CCP started considering the AT as something that mattered a little bit.

You know, instead of planning updates in the middle of the tournament, not giving duality the resources it needs. And banning a ship from use 5 days before the first match.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#6 - 2014-08-11 17:58:04 UTC
roigon wrote:
Fozzie, I know it's probably not you. But it would be really nice if CCP started considering the AT as something that mattered a little bit.

You know, instead of planning updates in the middle of the tournament, not giving duality the resources it needs. And banning a ship from use 5 days before the first match.


Sorry but I find this post rude and disgusting quite frankly.

CCP Fozzie, CCP Rise and the entire CCP AT team often spend countless hours of their own personal time and commitment not on the payroll helping with the Alliance Tournament. Duality is a privilege not a right, and the only reason why you have it this year is down to the endeavors of the CCP staff, namely CCP Merovingian. You're more than welcome to test on Singularity or Tranquility.

You honestly can't expect CCP to delay healthy game balance changes and updates for the rest of the 300,000 people playing this game to satisfy us, the minority, that is taking place in the Alliance Tournament.

The Nestor would not have the changes which would make it game-breaking until August 26th. Until Hyperion, it would have just been a 20 point ship which couldn't use half it's bonuses, which is why CCP Fozzie quite rightly said that it won't have much impact on competitive setups. The reason why it's banned instead of simply adding the amendment that you just can't refit on it is probably for clarity and ease of making sure teams keep to the rules because policing teams to make sure they don't refit using the Nestor during a match is probably something that is either not possible or very difficult to do with their current set of tournament tools.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#7 - 2014-08-11 18:06:08 UTC
Super rekt

~
roigon
TURN LEFT
#8 - 2014-08-11 18:17:15 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
roigon wrote:
Fozzie, I know it's probably not you. But it would be really nice if CCP started considering the AT as something that mattered a little bit.

You know, instead of planning updates in the middle of the tournament, not giving duality the resources it needs. And banning a ship from use 5 days before the first match.


Sorry but I find this post rude and disgusting quite frankly.

CCP Fozzie, CCP Rise and the entire CCP AT team often spend countless hours of their own personal time and commitment not on the payroll helping with the Alliance Tournament. Duality is a privilege not a right, and the only reason why you have it this year is down to the endeavors of the CCP staff, namely CCP Merovingian. You're more than welcome to test on Singularity or Tranquility.

You honestly can't expect CCP to delay healthy game balance changes and updates for the rest of the 300,000 people playing this game to satisfy us, the minority, that is taking place in the Alliance Tournament.


I'm not doubting fozzie or any of the other AT team peoples dedicated in question, I'm well aware how they go above and beyond. What I am taking into doubt is CCP's commitment.

As for delaying changes. Yes I think pushing back a release by one week isn't the end of the world. Nor would pushing back the AT by a few weeks. Feel free to disagree.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#9 - 2014-08-11 18:54:25 UTC
I disagree, I don't think pushing back the dates for Hyperion or the Alliance Tournament are as 'easy' as you think. 4 Weekends is a big commitment for CCP staff, players, viewers and the alliance commentators to plan their vacations, workloads and personal lives around. Also, ignoring these fairly large problems, if you "simply" moved the Alliance Tournament back a few weeks, it would then fall on the next expansion, Oceanus, which is being released on September 30th.

I don't think the AT team, or CCP as a whole have much say around release dates. All the 2014 dates of the expansions were already announced well in advance. CCP have responsibilities to share holders, the other 99% of players not taking part in the tournament. etc.

We, the players taking part in the alliance tournament represent approximately 0.3% of all eve-online players. I don't think delaying healthy design changes and new content for an additional 2 weeks is something which makes sense to do even if CCP were capable of doing it.

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#10 - 2014-08-11 18:57:37 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Damnit... I've already modified a dozen setups to take advantage of refitting on the field...


Can you not use the mobile depot?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#11 - 2014-08-11 19:00:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Any thoughts of allowing the Nestor as a logi ship in the future? It seems kind of biased to exclude a ship.


We exclude a lot of ships that would lead to a less exciting and varied tournament environment. In general, we have a lot of rules that limit tanking potential since a completely tank focused tournament would be bad for everyone involved.

This is also the reason why we no longer allow multiple logistics cruisers, for instance.


Yes I remember when they had two logi ships back in the day.
RR scale is terrible see apex tidi fights as a prime example

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2014-08-11 19:01:43 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Any thoughts of allowing the Nestor as a logi ship in the future? It seems kind of biased to exclude a ship.


We exclude a lot of ships that would lead to a less exciting and varied tournament environment. In general, we have a lot of rules that limit tanking potential since a completely tank focused tournament would be bad for everyone involved.

This is also the reason why we no longer allow multiple logistics cruisers, for instance.


From what I can tell the following sub-capitals (Anything above orca/freighter) are not allow:
Mining Barges
Exhumers
Mining Frigates(?)
T2 Industrial
Shuttles
Rookie Ships
Nestor

I can understand disallowing more than one logistics ship, but I think it would be better to make it so that people can be multiple logistic ships but limit it so only one has the ability to repair. This would allow teams to bring a nestor, but they would need to choose to use it for repping or combat+Other ship.
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#13 - 2014-08-11 19:48:04 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Damnit... I've already modified a dozen setups to take advantage of refitting on the field...


Can you not use the mobile depot?


Deployables are not allowed Big smile

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#14 - 2014-08-11 20:10:20 UTC
Greygal wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Damnit... I've already modified a dozen setups to take advantage of refitting on the field...


Can you not use the mobile depot?


Deployables are not allowed Big smile


^^ This...
FistyMcBumBardier
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-08-11 21:35:50 UTC
This coming less than a week before the first AT matches is in my opinion extremely bad planning. Granted, I like the changes, but right when I am starting to have faith that CCP has finally gotten their act together, you guys go and do something like this.
Kadesh Priestess
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#16 - 2014-08-11 22:07:17 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:

Mining Frigates(?)
Venture is allowed (as it's t1 frig), prospect isn't (expedition frigate)
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#17 - 2014-08-11 22:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Kadesh Priestess wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:

Mining Frigates(?)
Venture is allowed (as it's t1 frig), prospect isn't (expedition frigate)


And we fully support people bringing ventures as part of their team.

*warning, doing so might give CODE an unfair advantage...
TAckermassacker
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2014-08-11 22:21:43 UTC
You all miss the devastating fact that cynos are not allowed Roll
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#19 - 2014-08-11 22:25:43 UTC
TAckermassacker wrote:
You all miss the devastating fact that cynos are not allowed Roll


If cyno's were allowed, someone would cyno in their buddies into system.
Altaen
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#20 - 2014-08-11 22:31:08 UTC
Super happy about the Nestor change, but I disagree that there is no place competitively for the existing Nestor. I'd even go as far as to say that it's quite standard in the AT format for a number of battleships not to utilize their highslots for much more than Drone Link Augmentors, Neuts, Energy Transfers, and smartbombs. I suppose you really can't think of a use for an armor resist bonused drone bonused battleship with a ton of mids in this competition?

That said, I think it's poor form to ban a ship 5 days before match day, and worse form to change ship stats during a multi-week competition that many players put a lot of time into practicing for. I'd like to think that the new release schedule could allow for the agility to avoid such things.

I mean obviously you can't allow combat refitting in this tournament...but a release schedule that ignores the tournament cycle entirely is irresponsible.
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