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Perspective from a New Player
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#81 - 2014-08-11 15:04:58 UTC
Grim Hood wrote:
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:

The initial missions were OK, but once I was done with Aura and the career agents at Pasha, I was kind of lost after that. What do I do now? PVP? Hell no. I realize that the people who have pod killed me so far have played for years, and have just about every skill at level V, plus they have a gang of other kids they hang out with to back them up. So that's out.

Join a corp? I have a job. I play only when I have spare time. I am not going to show up to events or make this an important part of my life. Eve seems to not be good for casual gamers.


PVP: You can pvp pretty early in to the game, after 2-3 weeks of training. I have been playing just over 2 weeks and I got 3 kills in one morning solo pvping.

Corps: Most corps I have seen in the Corp Finder do not have any required events. If you join a faction warfare corp you can make ISK and pvp at the same time. Exploration is also a good way to make ISK in lowsec/nullsec. I have run a lot of missions and tried mining with an alt. Both tasks are incredibly boring. You will end up quitting the game in no time.

I have been reading the forums a lot and it seems like once players start down the Mining or Mission Running path they get stuck in a rut and never do anything else.


Seconded. Jump into a corp, most of us have jobs/families too. As long as you participate when you can show up, and help out when you can, most are not going to care if you aren't on for five hours a day.

If you go out mining or ratting during a CTA, on the other hand...
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#82 - 2014-08-11 16:34:00 UTC
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:
I am still trying to wrap my head around the notion of "bullying" in EvE.

I am picturing someone in Battlefield, COD, or CS complaining about a really good player killing them repeatedly and calling them a noob for dying so much. Is that bullying ? Or is that just playing the game. Should the good player not shoot you because that would be mean, how do they know your new or not good ..



I read your whole reply, which was well written. I think the above is the best example to comment on though.

There are two ways to act if you're playing a game which is basically a combat game. To any player, vet or new.

1) The bully way = "Go home Noob for dying so much".
or
2) The Indiana Jones Way = "You lost today kid, but that doesn't mean you have to like it"... Then give the guy your hat!

so, it's not the game that is the bully, it's the player(s) who thinks the game let's them be bullies.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#83 - 2014-08-11 16:49:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Toshiro Hasegawa] How can one be bullied in an environment that isn't the least bit real and that says "you know, it's perfectly ok to shoot someone, hell shoot everyone you see if you like, just because"?

When I was in NCDot the 1st time the evil Goons took Tribute (and my precious guristas rats) from me. I didn't feel bullied, though I did feel slightly penetrated (just the tip it seems). I make up for it by shooting Goons at every opportunity, because this is a video game lol.



It's never the loss of the ship that is bullying, as many will lose a ship to an NPC which has no soul.
Most, if not all players know that going into non policed sections of this game may mean ship death.

Interaction between real people is real, be it a virtual game, school or office environment. Challenge is good
and as was stated by another post "Real Players are much more Exciting a Challenge than NPC's", just the
NPC's aren't joining an MMO looking for friendship or at least a light heart-ed bond with others with the same interests.

Be original and considerate with your victory comments and you will make your victim's empowered to be a better challenge next time.
Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2014-08-11 16:56:35 UTC
It is a common held belief .. although one that i have not put to the test..., that if you convo the guy(s) who killed you and ask them how you could do better next time, you will often be met with helpful responses .. i would imagine that is not always the case .. but i like the image of the drooling pvp ganker turning into the helpful mentor a few moments later.

History is the study of change.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#85 - 2014-08-11 17:01:25 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Toshiro Hasegawa] How can one be bullied in an environment that isn't the least bit real and that says "you know, it's perfectly ok to shoot someone, hell shoot everyone you see if you like, just because"?

When I was in NCDot the 1st time the evil Goons took Tribute (and my precious guristas rats) from me. I didn't feel bullied, though I did feel slightly penetrated (just the tip it seems). I make up for it by shooting Goons at every opportunity, because this is a video game lol.



It's never the loss of the ship that is bullying, as many will lose a ship to an NPC which has no soul.
Most, if not all players know that going into non policed sections of this game may mean ship death.

Interaction between real people is real, be it a virtual game, school or office environment. Challenge is good
and as was stated by another post "Real Players are much more Exciting a Challenge than NPC's", just the
NPC's aren't joining an MMO looking for friendship or at least a light heart-ed bond with others with the same interests.

Be original and considerate with your victory comments and you will make your victim's empowered to be a better challenge next time.


I don't see what any of that has to do with 'bullying'. People not being nice to you /= bullying.

Again, I don't see how someone can be 'bullied' in a video game (or online at all), it's just another one of those made up things from people who seem to need to label behavior they don't like. Yea, I've have people email me with hateful stuff in the past, but that was them being an A-hole, a bully seeks to mentally, physically or emotionally DOMINATE the victim, without such domination, an event can't be called bullying and even then it's hard to see how it could be considered such in a voluntary environment.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#86 - 2014-08-11 17:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Tato
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Toshiro Hasegawa] How can one be bullied in an environment that isn't the least bit real and that says "you know, it's perfectly ok to shoot someone, hell shoot everyone you see if you like, just because"?

When I was in NCDot the 1st time the evil Goons took Tribute (and my precious guristas rats) from me. I didn't feel bullied, though I did feel slightly penetrated (just the tip it seems). I make up for it by shooting Goons at every opportunity, because this is a video game lol.



It's never the loss of the ship that is bullying, as many will lose a ship to an NPC which has no soul.
Most, if not all players know that going into non policed sections of this game may mean ship death.

Interaction between real people is real, be it a virtual game, school or office environment. Challenge is good
and as was stated by another post "Real Players are much more Exciting a Challenge than NPC's", just the
NPC's aren't joining an MMO looking for friendship or at least a light heart-ed bond with others with the same interests.

Be original and considerate with your victory comments and you will make your victim's empowered to be a better challenge next time.


I don't see what any of that has to do with 'bullying'. People not being nice to you /= bullying.

Again, I don't see how someone can be 'bullied' in a video game (or online at all), it's just another one of those made up things from people who seem to need to label behavior they don't like. Yea, I've have people email me with hateful stuff in the past, but that was them being an A-hole, a bully seeks to mentally, physically or emotionally DOMINATE the victim, without such domination, an event can't be called bullying and even then it's hard to see how it could be considered such in a voluntary environment.





You have to want to see it or at least have an open enough mind to consider a possibility other than the conclusion that you stubbornly cling to no matter what.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#87 - 2014-08-11 17:18:05 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
[quote=Toshiro Hasegawa] How can one be bullied in an environment that isn't the least bit real and that says "you know, it's perfectly ok to shoot someone, hell shoot everyone you see if you like, just because"?

When I was in NCDot the 1st time the evil Goons took Tribute (and my precious guristas rats) from me. I didn't feel bullied, though I did feel slightly penetrated (just the tip it seems). I make up for it by shooting Goons at every opportunity, because this is a video game lol.



It's never the loss of the ship that is bullying, as many will lose a ship to an NPC which has no soul.
Most, if not all players know that going into non policed sections of this game may mean ship death.

Interaction between real people is real, be it a virtual game, school or office environment. Challenge is good
and as was stated by another post "Real Players are much more Exciting a Challenge than NPC's", just the
NPC's aren't joining an MMO looking for friendship or at least a light heart-ed bond with others with the same interests.

Be original and considerate with your victory comments and you will make your victim's empowered to be a better challenge next time.


I don't see what any of that has to do with 'bullying'. People not being nice to you /= bullying.

Again, I don't see how someone can be 'bullied' in a video game (or online at all), it's just another one of those made up things from people who seem to need to label behavior they don't like. Yea, I've have people email me with hateful stuff in the past, but that was them being an A-hole, a bully seeks to mentally, physically or emotionally DOMINATE the victim, without such domination, an event can't be called bullying and even then it's hard to see how it could be considered such in a voluntary environment.





You have to want to see it or at least have an open enough mind to consider a possibility other than the conclusion that you stubbornly cling to no matter what.


Please explain then your definition of bullying. I know what it means, but you don't seem to. It has nothing to do with open mindedness, and everything to do with your (and others) oversensitivity to what other people say.
Tibo Paralian
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#88 - 2014-08-11 17:32:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tibo Paralian
Did Jenn just wrote that cyber-bullying is a made up thing that does not exists or happens in the real world?

Jenn aSide wrote:

I don't see what any of that has to do with 'bullying'. People not being nice to you /= bullying.

Again, I don't see how someone can be 'bullied' in a video game (or online at all), it's just another one of those made up things from people who seem to need to label behavior they don't like. Yea, I've have people email me with hateful stuff in the past, but that was them being an A-hole, a bully seeks to mentally, physically or emotionally DOMINATE the victim, without such domination, an event can't be called bullying and even then it's hard to see how it could be considered such in a voluntary environment.





Edit: said -> wrote & quote
Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2014-08-11 17:35:31 UTC
online bullying exists and is well documented. but it is usually tied to RL bullying that follows them into cyberspace.

Quote:
"Bullying

Bullying happens when there is an imbalance of power; where someone purposely and repeatedly says or does hurtful things to someone else. Bullying can occur one on one or in a group(s) of people. There are many different forms of bullying:
•Physical bullying (using your body or objects to cause harm): includes hitting, punching, kicking, spitting or breaking someone else’s belongings.
•Verbal bullying (using words to hurt someone): includes name calling, put-downs, threats and teasing.
•Social bullying (using your friends and relationships to hurt someone): includes spreading rumours, gossiping, excluding others from a group or making others look foolish or unintelligent. This form of bullying is most common among girls "


Quote:
"Cyberbullying

Cyberbullying involves the use of communication technologies such as the Internet, social networking sites, websites, email, text messaging and instant messaging to repeatedly intimidate or harass others.

Cyberbullying includes:
•Sending mean or threatening emails or text/instant messages.
•Posting embarrassing photos of someone online.
•Creating a website to make fun of others.
•Pretending to be someone by using their name.
•Tricking someone into revealing personal or embarrassing information and sending it to others.

Cyberbullying affects victims in different ways than traditional bullying. It can follow a victim everywhere 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from school, to the mall and all the way into the comfort of their home - usually safe from traditional forms of bullying. "



btw blaming the victim is a old wornout cliche.


History is the study of change.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#90 - 2014-08-11 17:39:01 UTC
Tibo Paralian wrote:
Did Jenn just said that cyber-bullying is a made up thing that does not exists or happens in the real world?



Yes Jenn did. It's whiny BS from people who need to make something look worse than it is. The kind of person who can be 'bullied' over a medium they can turn off shouldn't be using that medium to begin with. Calling what happens cyber-bullying belittles those who have been the subject of real bullying.

It's no different than "cyber-sex", it may be cyber but you ain't getting real sex out of it.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#91 - 2014-08-11 17:42:33 UTC
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:
online bullying exists and is well documented. but it is usually tied to RL bullying that follows them into cyberspace.

Quote:
"Bullying

Bullying happens when there is an imbalance of power; where someone purposely and repeatedly says or does hurtful things to someone else. Bullying can occur one on one or in a group(s) of people. There are many different forms of bullying:
•Physical bullying (using your body or objects to cause harm): includes hitting, punching, kicking, spitting or breaking someone else’s belongings.
•Verbal bullying (using words to hurt someone): includes name calling, put-downs, threats and teasing.
•Social bullying (using your friends and relationships to hurt someone): includes spreading rumours, gossiping, excluding others from a group or making others look foolish or unintelligent. This form of bullying is most common among girls "


Quote:
"Cyberbullying

Cyberbullying involves the use of communication technologies such as the Internet, social networking sites, websites, email, text messaging and instant messaging to repeatedly intimidate or harass others.

Cyberbullying includes:
•Sending mean or threatening emails or text/instant messages.
•Posting embarrassing photos of someone online.
•Creating a website to make fun of others.
•Pretending to be someone by using their name.
•Tricking someone into revealing personal or embarrassing information and sending it to others.

Cyberbullying affects victims in different ways than traditional bullying. It can follow a victim everywhere 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, from school, to the mall and all the way into the comfort of their home - usually safe from traditional forms of bullying. "



btw blaming the victim is a old wornout cliche.




1st, look up the word cliche before you ever use it again.

2nd that stuff you posted looks a awful lot like 1st world problems. OH NOES, cyber-bullying can even follow me to the MALL. Gag me with a spoon!

I once got a mean text form an ex girlfriend. I shut my phone off (unheard of, i know), problem solved.
Prince Kobol
#92 - 2014-08-11 17:48:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tibo Paralian wrote:
Did Jenn just said that cyber-bullying is a made up thing that does not exists or happens in the real world?



Yes Jenn did. It's whiny BS from people who need to make something look worse than it is. The kind of person who can be 'bullied' over a medium they can turn off shouldn't be using that medium to begin with. Calling what happens cyber-bullying belittles those who have been the subject of real bullying.

It's no different than "cyber-sex", it may be cyber but you ain't getting real sex out of it.



So all those kids who have committed suicide due to cyber bullying, i.e kids who have moved away from the school where the act of physical bullying was being carried out but were still being relentlessly Cyber Bullied deserved it because they were idiots?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#93 - 2014-08-11 18:04:41 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tibo Paralian wrote:
Did Jenn just said that cyber-bullying is a made up thing that does not exists or happens in the real world?



Yes Jenn did. It's whiny BS from people who need to make something look worse than it is. The kind of person who can be 'bullied' over a medium they can turn off shouldn't be using that medium to begin with. Calling what happens cyber-bullying belittles those who have been the subject of real bullying.

It's no different than "cyber-sex", it may be cyber but you ain't getting real sex out of it.



So all those kids who have committed suicide due to cyber bullying, i.e kids who have moved away from the school where the act of physical bullying was being carried out but were still being relentlessly Cyber Bullied deserved it because they were idiots?








What you mention doesn't happen without real bullying. Phones and computers can be turned off.

Like i said, 1st world problems, when i was a kid, people were also blaming phones and other forms of technology (like TV) for bad things instead of realizing that the victims usually have per-existing problems/conditions. But it's easier to blame facebook (and mean kids despite the fact that mean kids have always existed). It doesn't help that our society stopped teaching kids social coping mechanisms and instead started telling kids "you're a winnner" even when they aren't.

Of course we'll end up with some more BS laws about it because in the 1st world, made up problems are the only problems that matter.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#94 - 2014-08-11 18:04:43 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:
I am starting to get a sense that this is a universe where the most experiencedevery player can pretty much act with total impunityfreedom, and everyone else is basically at their mercyhas the option to respond as they wish.


There, fixed that for you.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Robert Sawyer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#95 - 2014-08-11 18:32:20 UTC
EVE in a nutshell when I was new:
Ganking
Scamming
Jita
Bees
Pirates
Evem more bees
Corp drama nerds
Extreme rage
GAWD DAMMIT SO MANY BEES
And the list continues!

"And when, at last, the moment is yours, that agony will become your greatest triumph."
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#96 - 2014-08-11 18:37:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

What you mention doesn't happen without real bullying. Phones and computers can be turned off.


Study a bit more about psychological effects within social environments and perhaps you may rethink your very narrow conclusion that one can simply turn off emotions and the desire to be accepted.

It's a game sure, but at least half of our lives are spent in the pursuit of entertainment in some form or another. Don't fall in to the trap of thinking that your actions towards others do not matter and have no social responsibility.

Wasn't it Uncle Ben who said "with great power comes great responsibility". (That's right he's virtual too.)
Paranoid Loyd
#97 - 2014-08-11 18:44:53 UTC
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Wasn't it Uncle Ben who said "with great power comes great responsibility". (That's right he's virtual too.)


Nope, Perfect Every TimeLol

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#98 - 2014-08-11 19:54:06 UTC
I'll be happy to say it.

In the context of this game, "cyber bullying" basically doesn't exist. This game is a media that you have specifically consented to participate in. Everything within the purview of this game is something you have agreed to.

That includes having your pixels stolen, your pixels blown up, and someone else laughing about it.

There is no in game interaction that can be described as "bullying".

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#99 - 2014-08-12 03:19:21 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Bullock Brawn wrote:
Wasn't it Uncle Ben who said "with great power comes great responsibility". (That's right he's virtual too.)


Nope, Perfect Every TimeLol



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Ben

Bullock Brawn
Doomheim
#100 - 2014-08-12 03:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullock Brawn
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I'll be happy to say it.

In the context of this game, "cyber bullying" basically doesn't exist. This game is a media that you have specifically consented to participate in. Everything within the purview of this game is something you have agreed to.

That includes having your pixels stolen, your pixels blown up, and someone else laughing about it.

There is no in game interaction that can be described as "bullying".



I completely agree that you do no feel bullied in anyway by the actions of others in this game and well perhaps any game you play online.

Unfortunately, not all people think and react as you do about situations and social variants, be they live or virtual.
As stated people join MMO games for a broad range of reasons, and many who come to this game do not know of
your personal views or the sometimes vague rule set that has been described by the publishers. There really is no
point to keep trying to convince someone that they should care about others, even though they don't personally understand why they should. It's just part of being a grown up, or learning to be... In general, people should except to get blown up in all sorts of ways in this game, but not humiliated by the winner.

PS.. Read the story about the CSM... The Mattani