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Perspective from a New Player

Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#61 - 2014-08-11 05:47:15 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
1v1


I found your problem.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#62 - 2014-08-11 05:59:43 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
1v1


I found your problem.





It is the only manly fight.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#63 - 2014-08-11 06:04:27 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
1v1


I found your problem.





It is the only manly fight.


Ha ha, good one.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Ocih
Space Mermaids
#64 - 2014-08-11 06:47:17 UTC
'Ignorance is bliss'

It's a saying that means a great deal in EVE.

The biggest flaw in EVE at the individual level is the FFA nature and the things that come with it. Once someone sets the bar, that's the bar for everyone outside a very small cone of high sec. Even if you try and avoid the **** measuring you lose out on any content outside of the small cone because you didn't meet the standard. All too often that standard only requires more time devoted so as you figured out, if you aren't willing to live, eat and breathe EVE Online you don't participate, you avoid those goals. You can try to stay under the radar, try to sneak in to the places outside the High Sec cone but you will be found and anything you have accomplished will be torn down and you will be returned to the small cone of High Sec to start again.

If you truly like EVE you can still find goals, you can still feel rewarded. It will seem grindy and that's because it is. It's an MMO from an era when grind was what was expected. There are aspects of EVE that you can enjoy and do in hopes that one day more content will be aimed at everyone and not at the multi-quadtrillionaire corps with 300 Titans at the ready. Because that is the bar right now and in FFA, forced for all it's the one you will need to defend against.
Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2014-08-11 07:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikael Menethil
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Have you ever played a full contact sport? Would you petition the appropriate authorities to change the rules of said full contact sport because you want to be playing a non contact sport? Eve is a full contact sport for the brain, if you don't like the rules there are plenty of other games that are non contact sports for the brain.


The only part in EVE that has any resemblance to a full contact sport is Factional Warfare.

EVE itself is a simluator with minigames in it. You don't need a high IQ to play it or a blob of friends. You can manipulate the game and become a trillionaire from inside a station.

The "rules" you are talking about are invented by this elitist community.
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#66 - 2014-08-11 08:10:37 UTC
join a decent corp and learn.. not all corps demand you be online and active all the time.. learn to ignore the trolls.. eve is full of them. Maybe join up with other new players and do stuff with them, beware though the NPC corps are full of griefers with noobie alts.
Look me up in game, Id be happy to help out.

... What next ??

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#67 - 2014-08-11 08:22:47 UTC
Mikael Menethil wrote:

The "rules" you are talking about are invented by this elitist community.


Personally, I don't think find "you should put effort into defending yourself" to be elitist at all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Aphsalar Khan
Vanguard of New Eden
#68 - 2014-08-11 08:52:02 UTC
Im sorry but that doesnt read so much as a perspective as a rant about how late you have come to the game an feel an entitlement to be on par with the veterans.

My perspective as someone who just started the other day is one of ppl more than willing to help and answer questions. a huge and open universe ready for exploration and a skill tree that has me so lost its wonderfull.

Yes im doing to die, yes im going to be ganked/bullied/scammed, basically not left alone, but hey i choose to play a mmo no a single player game i need to accept ppl are going to intrude on my gameplay just like i will in theres whether for good or bad but hopefully mutually beneficial.

I just finished the tutorials an yes i did find them for the most part underwhelming simply because this was touted as a pvp in space game and all they did was point me to pve, but thats neither here nor there simply because im used to sandbox an i know with a sandbox i myself make the content an first i just need to learn what potential's i have, so i read for most of my first day an decided on a career path that interested me, looked up the ship requirements then the things you put on the ship to be adequate at it and started to learn the skills, i dont expect to be any good but thats the best part of learning the boring part comes when you worked it all out an know everything so well enjoy the lost feeling while you can i sure will

Only fear i got is having to mine and do missions to earn the isk to do what i want to an extent i forget why i signed up in the first place, but reading helps and it saved me a lot of headaches, that an i was lucky i guess to get invited to a corp that seems helpfull.

you say you was flying around helping ppl in belts from pirates, maybe you should help yourself first, figure out what you want to do, read up on it and do it, just remember this is a online sandbox, you cant avoid ppl forever, just do what you want man an hell with the rest of us.

If being blew up dont make you more determined to get the frack back up an succeed then your 50 years of life taught you nothing.

Sorry for ranting, i just cant wrap my head around how someone "new" can have a perspective like that, i been hear only a couple of days an i seen something like 10 systems, the only experience i have is the tutorial which yeah does suck but hey it not the first game i had to look up things out of game.

Again my experience is the community has been great,
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2014-08-11 09:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
The community may seem cold and hostile at first but as cliche as this might sound it's because you haven't gotten to know them. The nature of the game requires them to shut out unknowns as a defense mechanism. The game doesn't so much bring out the worst in us either so much as it teaches us that danger can be fun and turns our sense of humor a little darker than most are accustomed to.

If you are new you are an "outsider" and with the nature of the game we can never be sure at first glance if you are legitimately new or an [insert alliance name here] alt hoping we will let you in on a secret. This is also why most corps/alliances will have a screening process if you were to apply. Once you get in somewhere though the rules for how you are treated are vastly different from before we knew who you were. Now that I'm in SC, people will just lend me ships worth billions simply on my word that I will return or replace it, hard to imagine as a first time outsider I'm sure. The cold and sarcastic shoulder has become shorthand for "I'm not telling you anything, don't waste your time", because as the old saying goes: loose lips sink ships. But don't sweat it, it's definitely not personal.

While there are individuals who I would not suggest spending any time with (although I will say most of them have positive sec status), I have never joined a corp that was an overall bad experience.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#70 - 2014-08-11 09:30:41 UTC
Mikael Menethil wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Have you ever played a full contact sport? Would you petition the appropriate authorities to change the rules of said full contact sport because you want to be playing a non contact sport? Eve is a full contact sport for the brain, if you don't like the rules there are plenty of other games that are non contact sports for the brain.


The only part in EVE that has any resemblance to a full contact sport is Factional Warfare.
Whoosh is the sound that was heard as the analogy went right over your head Shocked

Quote:
The "rules" you are talking about are invented by this elitist community.
Nope the rules are laid down by CCP, they just have a lot of leeway.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Prince Kobol
#71 - 2014-08-11 10:07:05 UTC
Said it before and I will say it again, the biggest problem Eve has when it comes ot new players is that NPE is mostly focused on PvE activities which suck massive hairy balls and is the weakest part of Eve.

Sure teach new players about the basic mechanics or Eve and it should be pushing players to find player corps, and by that I mean the likes of RvB, Eve Uni and FW Corps and not the hundreds of small crappy corps that reside in HS and do nothing but mine and run at the first sight of trouble.

Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-08-11 10:15:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tao Dolcino
To OP : Good post, but you seem to have a rather misinformed idea of what corporations are. You write that you don't want to join a corporation because basically, you have a real life.
You certainly don't know yet that there are tons of corporations who are more relaxed, casual, and have for philosophy "real life first".
If you use the recruitment forums here, you'll get a wrong perception, because it's only a certain kind of corporations who advertise there.
If you read the General Discussion forum here, you'll get a wrong perception of what the EVE community is, because it's mostly one kind of players who post there (trolls, bittervet, bullies...) who are not representative of the whole community, by far.
My only advise would be to find a corporation well populated with like-minded players who are active during your free time and who love to group and share activities. Use the ingame corporation search tool, or simply open the bio of a random player, and if you like what is written, open the description of his corpo, etc...
Take your time to find the right corpo, it's worth it, really.

Edit : About "what to do in EVE" : http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ this can help you.
Oh, and of course don't hesitate to poke me in game, i'll be glad to help you if i can.
Grim Hood
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#73 - 2014-08-11 11:50:04 UTC
Xerxes Fehrnah wrote:

The initial missions were OK, but once I was done with Aura and the career agents at Pasha, I was kind of lost after that. What do I do now? PVP? Hell no. I realize that the people who have pod killed me so far have played for years, and have just about every skill at level V, plus they have a gang of other kids they hang out with to back them up. So that's out.

Join a corp? I have a job. I play only when I have spare time. I am not going to show up to events or make this an important part of my life. Eve seems to not be good for casual gamers.


PVP: You can pvp pretty early in to the game, after 2-3 weeks of training. I have been playing just over 2 weeks and I got 3 kills in one morning solo pvping.

Corps: Most corps I have seen in the Corp Finder do not have any required events. If you join a faction warfare corp you can make ISK and pvp at the same time. Exploration is also a good way to make ISK in lowsec/nullsec. I have run a lot of missions and tried mining with an alt. Both tasks are incredibly boring. You will end up quitting the game in no time.

I have been reading the forums a lot and it seems like once players start down the Mining or Mission Running path they get stuck in a rut and never do anything else.


Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-08-11 12:08:58 UTC
I've been playing since 2005, and EVE continues to suit me down to the ground. Some weeks, I don't have the time to do more than log in long enough for skills and industry. Other weeks, with time to burn I can log in and go on fleet ops with the corp, do some highsec trading, whatever. My experience is that EVE can be as casual or as hardcore as I like, and in those eight and a half years I've occupied pretty much every point on the hardcore/casual spectrum.

I'm here for the long term. Maybe I'll find another game to occupy my attention for a bit every so often, but I always come back.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#75 - 2014-08-11 13:38:31 UTC
I am still trying to wrap my head around the notion of "bullying" in EvE.

I am picturing someone in Battlefield, COD, or CS complaining about a really good player killing them repeatedly and calling them a noob for dying so much. Is that bullying ? Or is that just playing the game. Should the good player not shoot you because that would be mean, how do they know your new or not good ..

In EvE the ganker doesnt know if you are a day 1 player or a day 1 alt of a multi trillion isk titan flying nullsec alliance leader.

I started EvE as a purely industrialist char, in an industrial corp. I started hating the pirates, mbrs of M00, killing me as i tried to do my industrial stuff. Then i had an epiphany .. they were just playing the role of pirates, which in turn meant that i had to deal with them, which was a hell of alot more fun that dealing with NPC rats. They added content, i had to plan and execute to not be affected by them, I learned to love to hate them.

Not saying there arnt asshats in eve who enjoy making other people suffer - which is a bad thing in a human in RL .. but its just a game, like playing the bad guy in a role playing game. I could never do what they do, but thats me, and i dont expect others to have the same moral compass i have; that would be presumptuous of me.

If you do not like the idea of being blown up by some asshat trying to farm your tears for nothing more than giggles then you wont make it eve, in the long run. In the short term, your reaction is perfectly normal and warranted. In the long term you should learn to let go, learn to avoid doing things that give the asshats an in, figure out how to mitigate losses, learn to fit the right ships with the right modules, learn to work with your corp m8s and allies for mutual protection and benifit.. and eventually you will get to turn the tables on the asshats .. and boy does it feel great to bait and gank a ganker.

EvE is a PVP game like Call of Duty and Battlefield - you should expect to be killed by veteran players .. they have the skill .. and i dont mean the Skill Points .. i mean player skill. I have the SP, but i dont have the player skills and i get nuked by players with 5% of my SP total - cause they know how to use their ship + mods way better. A day 3 player can do great things with their meager t1 ships and basic mods if they read up on the what, when, why, who and how of frig 1v1 pvp. A day 1 player can join a nullsec fleet and be useful, survive and get many kills. (or die in seconds). A ship is a ship and a module is a module .. the SP bonuses dont really matter as much as people make out .. what matters is what is done with the tool.

I think there are bullies in EvE .. but they are not the norm - they are a small impactful tiny minority
I think there are forum trolls, but they too are a small loud impactful minority.
And both can be largely ignored or guarded against.
CCP doesnt not enable their behaviour anymore than it enables my in game altruism. - they create a space where we chose how to behave.
If you can not accept that someone else might ruin your day in eve by blowing up your ship then EvE isnt the game you should not be playing - its a game where you are supposed to have fun .. if you are not having fun then why play it. The rest of us love the game for what it is, and i dont see why we should look to changing the core element of the only game that is like this when there are so many others that would work better for those people with issues with EvE.

History is the study of change.

Mikael Menethil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-08-11 13:52:00 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Whoosh is the sound that was heard as the analogy went right over your head Shocked


The analogy is invalid and the level of superiority it implies sickens my belly greatly.

Comparing a sandbox experience that encompasses dozens of game styles with limited arena based game rules is not gonna fly.
New Eden is not a world where you have to play in a specific way, unlike a full contact sport. There's no goal and, thus, no official rules that define how to use or limit the mechanics.

There are just people that act in various ways. It's a free for all, almost like a maze full of mice.
They would have to add rules because there's nothing to change.

By contrast, the rules in one of the "minigames" I was talking about: http://community.eveonline.com/community/alliance-tournament/rules/





Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#77 - 2014-08-11 13:52:09 UTC
Toshiro Hasegawa wrote:
I am still trying to wrap my head around the notion of "bullying" in EvE.


I struggle with that too. if you are like me, you probably feel this way because you understand that 'bullying' is impossible over a medium you can turn off and walk away from....

I mean the whole idea is just stupid. How can one be bullied in an environment that isn't the least bit real and that says "you know, it's perfectly ok to shoot someone, hell shoot everyone you see if you like, just because"?

When I was in NCDot the 1st time the evil Goons took Tribute (and my precious guristas rats) from me. I didn't feel bullied, though I did feel slightly penetrated (just the tip it seems). I make up for it by shooting Goons at every opportunity, because this is a video game lol.
Toshiro Hasegawa
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2014-08-11 13:57:11 UTC
I guess there could be bullying but that wouldnt be a random ganking .. that would have to be targeted negative interaction .. someone emailing you, following you around, harrasing you, being personal in the attacks at you, not being concerned about the game itself, spilling from the game world to the real world by its venomous nature. But i would bet this has only happened a few times in the last decade .. could be wrong .. but i bet its very very rare.

History is the study of change.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#79 - 2014-08-11 14:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mikael Menethil wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Whoosh is the sound that was heard as the analogy went right over your head Shocked


The analogy is invalid and the level of superiority it implies sickens my belly greatly.

Comparing a sandbox experience that encompasses dozens of game styles with limited arena based game rules is not gonna fly.
New Eden is not a world where you have to play in a specific way, unlike a full contact sport. There's no goal and, thus, no official rules that define how to use or limit the mechanics.

There are just people that act in various ways. It's a free for all, almost like a maze full of mice.
They would have to add rules because there's nothing to change.

By contrast, the rules in one of the "minigames" I was talking about: http://community.eveonline.com/community/alliance-tournament/rules/







Why is it always the 'playstyles" people posting dumb stuff lol. No one said anything about any damn playstyles.

EVE requires and rewards certain mindsets and character traits. People who have the proper predisposition enjoy the hell out of EVE, people who don't either quit early on (smart) or keep playing a game they don't like and aren't really suited for while begging the developers to change the game to fit their tastes (dumb).

Jonah simply uses contact sports as a metaphor, one I'm fond if goes like this: "If you dislike capitalism, why would you choose to play a game that should have been called 'Reganomics/Thatcherism Online' lol?"



Most other MMOs cater to the kinds of people we have here that have so many issues with EVE, some of us are confused as to why these people choose to play here instead of those other games. For instance, some people are 'cooperative sorts' who despise the kind of hard core competing that goes on in EVE. Nothing wrong with being a cooperative sort (I am, i prefer cooperation over conflict/drama), but HATING conflict marks you are someone who shouldn't be playing this kind of game.

CCP advertises EVE Online as a dark, dystopian world, almost the opposite of the cheery optimism of another space based IP were people are busy 'living long and prospering'. That other space based IP has an Online game of the same name and it is the opposite of EVE Online: griefing is not allowed at all, there is no non-consensual pvp, even the penalties for death or a joke compared to EVE.

Yet, rather than play a game that is tailor made for their personality type, they play EVE, a game that goes directly against what they say they want and also a game that attracts certain types of players that would be frowned upon elsewhere.

My theory is that some people just need an 'enemy' to measure themselves with, they don't really want the kind of game they clamor for (if they did they'd be playing it rather than being here), they just think they do.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#80 - 2014-08-11 14:50:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mikael Menethil wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Whoosh is the sound that was heard as the analogy went right over your head Shocked


The analogy is invalid and the level of superiority it implies sickens my belly greatly.

Comparing a sandbox experience that encompasses dozens of game styles with limited arena based game rules is not gonna fly.
New Eden is not a world where you have to play in a specific way, unlike a full contact sport. There's no goal and, thus, no official rules that define how to use or limit the mechanics.

There are just people that act in various ways. It's a free for all, almost like a maze full of mice.
They would have to add rules because there's nothing to change.
Jenn covered most, if not all of what I wanted to say in reply to your post. A fair bit more politely than I would have done so too.

Quote:
By contrast, the rules in one of the "minigames" I was talking about: http://community.eveonline.com/community/alliance-tournament/rules/
The alliance tournament is an anomaly, apart from essential commonalities such as the ships and modules used it has absolutely nothing in common with day to day play in Eve.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack