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[Suggestion] Black Ops Rebalance
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Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-08-11 11:11:40 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:


Drones are counter productive because while they are out you can't cloak, if your buddy has his out and you just in range of his orbiting drones yo still can't cloak, see my reasoning? Also if you gotta jump away in a hurry you will leave your drones behind because the cost of your ship is more important, so simply just get rid of the drones.

Yes drones on the Stratios is counter productive.

About the Widow, I have one, has no ecm moduels on it.... pure shield torpedo widow, more survivable, ecm widow is usually left on field to die and save the other blops.


I find my widow to be much more survivable with its ECM if you jump it in with the proper ECM mods on you can normally lock down a fleet long enough to GTFO and if not the full fleet you can at least get the tackles.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#22 - 2014-08-11 11:45:58 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
NO DRONES PLEASE, COUNTER PRODUCTIVE TO CLOAKS

Totally disagree...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#23 - 2014-08-11 11:49:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
why no drones ? they are always usefull (light drones/ecm drones and sentry/heavy who gives slight dps boost )
Stratios are counter productive by using drones ? i don't think so
i don't understand you'r argument

but you'r rebalance seems good (that just make me sad to see the ecm bonuses on widow removed :/)


Drones are counter productive because while they are out you can't cloak, if your buddy has his out and you just in range of his orbiting drones yo still can't cloak, see my reasoning? Also if you gotta jump away in a hurry you will leave your drones behind because the cost of your ship is more important, so simply just get rid of the drones.

Yes drones on the Stratios is counter productive.

About the Widow, I have one, has no ecm moduels on it.... pure shield torpedo widow, more survivable, ecm widow is usually left on field to die and save the other blops.

If your drones are out it is very likely you are also being targeted, so you won't be able to cloak anyway....
Removing drones is NOT the solution to any BO rebalance....
now having a new BO that specializes with Hybrid weapons would be nice.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#24 - 2014-08-11 11:54:04 UTC
Saisin wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
why no drones ? they are always usefull (light drones/ecm drones and sentry/heavy who gives slight dps boost )
Stratios are counter productive by using drones ? i don't think so
i don't understand you'r argument

but you'r rebalance seems good (that just make me sad to see the ecm bonuses on widow removed :/)


Drones are counter productive because while they are out you can't cloak, if your buddy has his out and you just in range of his orbiting drones yo still can't cloak, see my reasoning? Also if you gotta jump away in a hurry you will leave your drones behind because the cost of your ship is more important, so simply just get rid of the drones.

Yes drones on the Stratios is counter productive.

About the Widow, I have one, has no ecm moduels on it.... pure shield torpedo widow, more survivable, ecm widow is usually left on field to die and save the other blops.

If your drones are out it is very likely you are also being targeted, so you won't be able to cloak anyway....
Removing drones os NOT the solution to any BO rebalance....



Completely agreeing with you

And it's not because you WON'T use the major bonuses of the Widow that you must WANT remove them for future rebalance because it's YOUR fit/how to it

Lot of Widow pilot love to fly them with ECM (rainbow or multi whatever) that will hurt them a lot because you think that you prefer fly full shield widow

don't make you'r gameplay as a statement of how to play/not to play a ship please ...
Dark Drifter
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#25 - 2014-08-11 15:25:51 UTC
i really like the proposed changes you are sugesting. a little sceptical on the prop mods under cloak thing though. maby make the cloak alter max speed insted

also i would like to see black ops ships having the ability to reverse a bridge. IE

2 blackops ships
1 cyno ship (new type of cyno)

Covert assault cynosorual field generator- when active allows a blackopps abttleship to reverse a bridge to its starting point and opens a stable connection between the 2 points aslong as the CAC is active
cycle time 5min
not visible on overview (however activating ship and reverse bridging Bpos are visable on Dscan)
can be activated in high sec!!!!!!

cyno ship lights 'covert assault cynosorual field'
black ops ship 1 lights covert bridge
black ops ship 2 takes the bridge to cyno ship
black ops ship 2 lights covert bridge at the cyno ship and links to black ops ship 1

there is now a stable WH between the 2 Blackops ships thats any ship that is specificly designed to use a cloak this includes
covert ops frigates
stealth bombers
force recons
combat recons
black ops ships
transport ships (both hulls)
T3s (any hull configuration)
expedition frigates
SOE hulls
aliance tourni ships (the covert logistics one and its accompanying AF)

this would create a dynamic that allowed for a new way to move fleets in secret and compleatly shake up logistics
Athryn Bellee
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-08-11 15:29:25 UTC
Dark Drifter wrote:
i really like the proposed changes you are sugesting. a little sceptical on the prop mods under cloak thing though. maby make the cloak alter max speed insted

also i would like to see black ops ships having the ability to reverse a bridge. IE

2 blackops ships
1 cyno ship (new type of cyno)

Covert assault cynosorual field generator- when active allows a blackopps abttleship to reverse a bridge to its starting point and opens a stable connection between the 2 points aslong as the CAC is active
cycle time 5min
not visible on overview (however activating ship and reverse bridging Bpos are visable on Dscan)
can be activated in high sec!!!!!!

cyno ship lights 'covert assault cynosorual field'
black ops ship 1 lights covert bridge
black ops ship 2 takes the bridge to cyno ship
black ops ship 2 lights covert bridge at the cyno ship and links to black ops ship 1

there is now a stable WH between the 2 Blackops ships thats any ship that is specificly designed to use a cloak this includes
covert ops frigates
stealth bombers
force recons
combat recons
black ops ships
transport ships (both hulls)
T3s (any hull configuration)
expedition frigates
SOE hulls
aliance tourni ships (the covert logistics one and its accompanying AF)

this would create a dynamic that allowed for a new way to move fleets in secret and compleatly shake up logistics


Cynos are not wormholes. They are a beacon that the jump drive of another ship can lock onto for the purpose of jumping or bridging.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#27 - 2014-08-11 16:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Good idea's. I have made a quete a few "Pls rebalance bo's" topics here since 2009. Some interesting links for you:

A old topic with lots of good idea's:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1204416

Crowdsourcing results 2011:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/July_2011_Prioritization_Crowdsourcing#Notes_on_Results
*Longer LY range and fuel usage reduction are recieved

I shall keep it short as my english takes too long to get writen perfectly.


I think there should be 2 tiers of BO. One pew pew other one support. Will give more options for the teamplay and solo/dual style
laser damage - neuts & tracking
drones damage - sd & point
missile damage - ecm & brigingbonus
projectiles damage - tp & web

Since NPC agro switches (changed in 2012) it is harder to drop solo, their ranking should be lower

I think switching hull to battlecruizer size or switching gun turret size from large to medium with extended bonuses (range, damage, falloff) will not be a bad idea.

Covert cloak is a tough one, maybe with a sec delay, like stratios. Mind that due the size of bo it is relay easy decloaking in bubbles with small ships.

The scan res penalty from cloaks should be removed and scanres should be raised to around 350.

The redeemer should be a bit more agile
The sin should get a bit more power output
The panther could use a better slot lay-out, its both possible armour & shield but doesnt exells in ether one
The Widow should become a armour ship or crazy no low slots at all but like 12 mids orso

A new experimental briging module should be invented. One that you can activate > select a constallation > jumps to a random system in that constallation with some extra risk. (risk as in visible bakon in system or something else)

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#28 - 2014-08-11 16:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Good idea's. I have made a quete a few "Pls rebalance bo's" topics here since 2009. Some interesting links for you:

A old topic with lots of good idea's:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1204416

Crowdsourcing results 2011:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/July_2011_Prioritization_Crowdsourcing#Notes_on_Results
*Longer LY range and fuel usage reduction are recieved

I shall keep it short as my english takes too long to get writen perfectly.


I think there should be 2 tiers of BO. One pew pew other one support. Will give more options for the teamplay and solo/dual style
laser damage - neuts & tracking
drones damage - sd & point
missile damage - ecm & brigingbonus
projectiles damage - tp & web

Since NPC agro switches (changed in 2012) it is harder to drop solo, their ranking should be lower

I think switching hull to battlecruizer size or switching gun turret size from large to medium with extended bonuses (range, damage, falloff) will not be a bad idea.

Covert cloak is a tough one, maybe with a sec delay, like stratios. Mind that due the size of bo it is relay easy decloaking in bubbles with small ships.

The scan res penalty from cloaks should be removed and scanres should be raised to around 350.

The redeemer should be a bit more agile
The sin should get a bit more power output
The panther could use a better slot lay-out, its both possible armour & shield but doesnt exells in ether one
The Widow should become a armour ship or crazy no low slots at all but like 12 mids orso

A new experimental briging module should be invented. One that you can activate > select a constallation > jumps to a random system in that constallation with some extra risk. (risk as in visible bakon in system or something else)



Wow wow Wow XD
It's not a rebalance , it's a complete rework XD

So

having 2 size of black ops , 1 focused on dps and combat , 1 focused on bridge and ewar aren't bad , but that mean we will NEED 2 Black ops to do the same (or nearly the same) work than we doing today with one

Remove the scan res penalty by my "black ops cloacking device" will solve the problem (it's really a pain to get 15 sec just to lock you'r target)

But NO COVERT OPS CLOAK at all PLEASE , they don't need it , and if they will have a covert ops they will be 1)too stronk with the actual stats 2) gonna be nerfed everywhere to negate the right to fit this covert ops cloak

I don't really think that the NPC agro/switching are a problem for solo black ops warfare , i mean , if in any solo ships , you aren't able to tank a bit the NPC when you kill you'r target , it's not the fault of the NPC Switch , something is maybe wrong with you'r fit honestly

Swiching hull to battlecruiser .... sorry but no way...
Why ?
If black ops are battleship it's maybe for a reason : they are big , slow , high cost , large weapon fitted (that mean lower dps application) , they are quite balanced like that

I really like you'r idea of random jump , but if CCP made it , they will be so "nerf" because they can be so OP with these things , that they will be never use , and just be a shinny things with nothings good in PVP imho
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#29 - 2014-08-11 17:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
To understand my point of view , i gonna clarify some point
we don't want to see a complete REWORK of black ops , that can maybe destroy them and frustrate lot of people who enjoy to fly it actually

The black ops cloaking device would work on that way
remove the old-fashioned bonuses of velocity while cloacked by a specific cloack module that Black op can fit , who give the same or better bonus than today (remove scan res penalty , deactivation delay , etc etc)

this allow to fill new bonuses to get them more competitive (by the actual full rework of many T1 and T2 ship everywhere)

We've got recently a buff of Jump/bridge range and increasing fuel bay , who is nice and works well

but if we want to see more blackops on field , who will justify the cost to fly them and bring them to field they obviously need more power and resistance
They will be able to hold the field and survive more longer on field and be more deadly than a bling killmail for ennemy

That's why i purpose more DPS application and/or ewar stuff (especially the Widow ), but keeping in mind that Force Recon MUST be the master of E-War support (that why i purpose bonuses just under force recon bonuses , except for the Widow ...)

All you'r idea you give are funny and interesting but will never be apply by CCP , because many of them break black ops or make them too strong (and mean that will be nerf really hard to implement you'r feature)

I don't say that you have bad idea or bad meaning of black ops concept , but keep in mind that we have MORE titan pilot than BlackOps Pilot , something going wrong

Keep in mind too that power projection by Titan/JumpBridges are a problem right now , so don't report the problem to black ops please ^^


But many many thanks for everyone to debate and participating at these thread with respecfull attitude , CCP must look at it and make something , Black Ops need some love Twisted
Immortal Chrono Pimpin
Codename-47
Avocado Cartel
#30 - 2014-08-11 18:13:56 UTC
So nuet bonus would be better served on a sin and you didnt cover the fact that the new fuel cost for jumping has crippled blops in the fact that they can only make 3 max range jumps before refueling its now expensive to drop them.

They need a role bonus to reduction to fuel cost per jump if they are to be viable for the wallet tbh id rather drop carriers now than blops.
Eridon Hermetz
Diplomatie Rapide
Wreckflix and chill
#31 - 2014-08-11 18:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:
So nuet bonus would be better served on a sin and you didnt cover the fact that the new fuel cost for jumping has crippled blops in the fact that they can only make 3 max range jumps before refueling its now expensive to drop them.

They need a role bonus to reduction to fuel cost per jump if they are to be viable for the wallet tbh id rather drop carriers now than blops.




+1 for this idea , i gonna add this into a new role bonuses

a -33% reduction consumption of isotope or a -50% would be great , and allow them to make more bridge/jump without refuelling , that exactly fill with clandestine manoeuvers


New Role Bonuses Added (-50% for the moment , lemme know if it is good or bad)
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#32 - 2014-08-11 19:04:25 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:
So nuet bonus would be better served on a sin and you didnt cover the fact that the new fuel cost for jumping has crippled blops in the fact that they can only make 3 max range jumps before refueling its now expensive to drop them.

They need a role bonus to reduction to fuel cost per jump if they are to be viable for the wallet tbh id rather drop carriers now than blops.


A fuel consumption per level on the BLOPs skill would be cool. Thanks for the isotope consumption changes, CCP, it totally didn't **** up isotope prices anything. Roll

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#33 - 2014-08-11 19:08:57 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
Immortal Chrono Pimpin wrote:
So nuet bonus would be better served on a sin and you didnt cover the fact that the new fuel cost for jumping has crippled blops in the fact that they can only make 3 max range jumps before refueling its now expensive to drop them.

They need a role bonus to reduction to fuel cost per jump if they are to be viable for the wallet tbh id rather drop carriers now than blops.




+1 for this idea , i gonna add this into a new role bonuses

a -33% reduction consumption of isotope or a -50% would be great , and allow them to make more bridge/jump without refuelling , that exactly fill with clandestine manoeuvers


New Role Bonuses Added (-50% for the moment , lemme know if it is good or bad)


Couldn't this just be a change in the attributes, rather than a role bonus?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#34 - 2014-08-11 20:25:14 UTC
BlOps BS need the following things:
T2 resists
More fitting so they can fit reasonable DPS/tank without going with faction mods (Pretty much impossible to get a reasonable fit now without faction mods.)

Specifically each hull needs:
The Widow needs to lose the ECM bonuses and become a missile DPS ship.
The Sin needs to become purely hybrid or purely drone based. I would rather see drones personally.

They need the following bonuses on each ship:
BS skill:
5% capacitor recharge time (I personally like recharge time since you hit grid at 25% cap at best. Capacitor amount would work also.)
5-7.5% Damage (Not ROF)

BlOps skill:
5-7.5% Optimal/falloff range or missile velocity
5-7.5% tracking/explosion velocity

Role bonuses:
250% velocity when cloaked
Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation

That's all BlOps BS need. Pretty quick and simple fix. I would love to see the bridging module actually become part of the cost to build instead of it being a separate module. You would get all the functionality of the Bridge module without having to try to fit another mod. Not a deal breaker if it doesn't happen.

It allows each part of the Covert Ops line to do what it needs to:
Stealth bombers do lots of DPS cheaply while only having frigate tank.
Recons lock down the target through jams, damps, Tracking disruption, neuts, and webs.
BlOps BS bring the hurt, but die just like any other BS when unsupported.
Covert haulers to haul/be bridged in with anything extra that is needed.

Why you ask?
BlOps should require a fleet of SBs, recons, and BlOps BS to achieve maximum efficiency. With your changes that turns BlOps BS into joint BS/recons you effectively reduce the need to have recons and SBs on the field. Each part of the BlOps fleet has a role. SBs are low SP cheap DPS, Recons are brought in to lock down the target, BlOps BS can bridge the fleet and jump in to apply lots of DPS. By doing what you propose and adding in recon bonuses to BlOps BS you destroy this balance and turn BlOPs fleet into "BlOps BS or GTFO." That is not good for this game.

Next, there is nothing wrong with how cloaking currently works on BlOps BS. You jump in, kill the target, MJD off and cloak. Then you align, decloak, warp a safe and recloak. Decloak and jump out. It works. It isn't broken. If anything you could update this by taking the velocity while cloaked bonus and moving it to a role bonus as suggested above to free up a skill bonus. No need for a new module like you propose.
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-08-11 20:52:05 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
BlOps BS need the following things:
T2 resists
More fitting so they can fit reasonable DPS/tank without going with faction mods (Pretty much impossible to get a reasonable fit now without faction mods.)

Specifically each hull needs:
The Widow needs to lose the ECM bonuses and become a missile DPS ship.
The Sin needs to become purely hybrid or purely drone based. I would rather see drones personally.

They need the following bonuses on each ship:
BS skill:
5% capacitor recharge time (I personally like recharge time since you hit grid at 25% cap at best. Capacitor amount would work also.)
5-7.5% Damage (Not ROF)

BlOps skill:
5-7.5% Optimal/falloff range or missile velocity
5-7.5% tracking/explosion velocity

Role bonuses:
250% velocity when cloaked
Can fit Covert Cynosural Field Generator and Covert Jump Portal Generator
Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds
No targeting delay after Cloaking Device deactivation

That's all BlOps BS need. Pretty quick and simple fix. I would love to see the bridging module actually become part of the cost to build instead of it being a separate module. You would get all the functionality of the Bridge module without having to try to fit another mod. Not a deal breaker if it doesn't happen.

It allows each part of the Covert Ops line to do what it needs to:
Stealth bombers do lots of DPS cheaply while only having frigate tank.
Recons lock down the target through jams, damps, Tracking disruption, neuts, and webs.
BlOps BS bring the hurt, but die just like any other BS when unsupported.
Covert haulers to haul/be bridged in with anything extra that is needed.

Why you ask?
BlOps should require a fleet of SBs, recons, and BlOps BS to achieve maximum efficiency. With your changes that turns BlOps BS into joint BS/recons you effectively reduce the need to have recons and SBs on the field. Each part of the BlOps fleet has a role. SBs are low SP cheap DPS, Recons are brought in to lock down the target, BlOps BS can bridge the fleet and jump in to apply lots of DPS. By doing what you propose and adding in recon bonuses to BlOps BS you destroy this balance and turn BlOPs fleet into "BlOps BS or GTFO." That is not good for this game.

Next, there is nothing wrong with how cloaking currently works on BlOps BS. You jump in, kill the target, MJD off and cloak. Then you align, decloak, warp a safe and recloak. Decloak and jump out. It works. It isn't broken. If anything you could update this by taking the velocity while cloaked bonus and moving it to a role bonus as suggested above to free up a skill bonus. No need for a new module like you propose.

this is not what BLOPS need for one if you want a DPS/tank BS look to marauders adding to max cap would still leave you at 25% when landing on grid but they don't need cap recharge either since any concomitant understands how to use cap boosters. finaly if you turn the widow into a missile boat it will become the least used BlOP as missiles just don't work well outside of struct bashing the ECM is what makes it so loved by most of its pilots
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#36 - 2014-08-11 20:57:01 UTC
Terrible.
Both, your English, and your suggested changes.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#37 - 2014-08-11 21:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
Jason Pareka wrote:

this is not what BLOPS need for one if you want a DPS/tank BS look to marauders adding to max cap would still leave you at 25% when landing on grid but they don't need cap recharge either since any concomitant understands how to use cap boosters. finaly if you turn the widow into a missile boat it will become the least used BlOP as missiles just don't work well outside of struct bashing the ECM is what makes it so loved by most of its pilots

Of course. Because a marauder can jump to a BlOps cyno. Roll

The purpose of adding in the cap recharge bonus would be to open up fitting choices and help correct for a weakness of BlOps BS. Yes, recharge time won't do anything about you being at 25% cap when you jump in. What it will do is make it so you can regen cap quicker so you can be at jump cap sooner. 25% cap recharge means you could fit a heavy cap booster to gain lots more cap quicker, or fit a smaller cap booster and free up fitting more more DPS or tank, or you could even be ballsy enough to fit no cap booster to free up the slot for something else. It opens up more choices.

If you think missiles don't work well in PvP you are clueless. The tracking formula for missiles excels in situations where the target is moving slowly and has a large signature. A web and a TP fit to a rapier or the Widow itself would make missiles track even better than before. Or if you were super worried about the tracking of your torps/CMs you could fit RHMLs. Leave the ECM to the falcon. There is a reason it is a specialized ECM ship that can be bridged by a BlOps BS.
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-08-11 21:13:31 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
Jason Pareka wrote:

this is not what BLOPS need for one if you want a DPS/tank BS look to marauders adding to max cap would still leave you at 25% when landing on grid but they don't need cap recharge either since any concomitant understands how to use cap boosters. finaly if you turn the widow into a missile boat it will become the least used BlOP as missiles just don't work well outside of struct bashing the ECM is what makes it so loved by most of its pilots

Of course. Because a marauder can jump to a BlOps cyno. Roll

The purpose of adding in the cap recharge bonus would be to open up fitting choices and help correct for a weakness of BlOps BS. Yes, recharge time won't do anything about you being at 25% cap when you jump in. What it will do is make it so you can regen cap quicker so you can be at jump cap sooner. 25% cap recharge means you could fit a heavy cap booster to gain lots more cap quicker, or fit a smaller cap booster and free up fitting more more DPS or tank, or you could even be ballsy enough to fit no cap booster to free up the slot for something else. It opens up more choices.

If you think missiles don't work well in PvP you are clueless. The tracking formula for missiles excels in situations where the target is moving slowly and has a large signature. A web and a TP fit to a rapier or the Widow itself would make missiles track even better than before. Or if you were super worried about the tracking of your torps/CMs you could fit RHMLs. Leave the ECM to the falcon. There is a reason it is a specialized ECM ship that can be bridged by a BlOps BS.


exactly a marauder can't jump because if it could it would be op. and the weakness of it dropping in at 25% cap is there to balance all ships with jump drives
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#39 - 2014-08-11 21:34:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
Jason Pareka wrote:
Aliventi wrote:
Jason Pareka wrote:

this is not what BLOPS need for one if you want a DPS/tank BS look to marauders adding to max cap would still leave you at 25% when landing on grid but they don't need cap recharge either since any concomitant understands how to use cap boosters. finaly if you turn the widow into a missile boat it will become the least used BlOP as missiles just don't work well outside of struct bashing the ECM is what makes it so loved by most of its pilots

Of course. Because a marauder can jump to a BlOps cyno. Roll

The purpose of adding in the cap recharge bonus would be to open up fitting choices and help correct for a weakness of BlOps BS. Yes, recharge time won't do anything about you being at 25% cap when you jump in. What it will do is make it so you can regen cap quicker so you can be at jump cap sooner. 25% cap recharge means you could fit a heavy cap booster to gain lots more cap quicker, or fit a smaller cap booster and free up fitting more more DPS or tank, or you could even be ballsy enough to fit no cap booster to free up the slot for something else. It opens up more choices.

If you think missiles don't work well in PvP you are clueless. The tracking formula for missiles excels in situations where the target is moving slowly and has a large signature. A web and a TP fit to a rapier or the Widow itself would make missiles track even better than before. Or if you were super worried about the tracking of your torps/CMs you could fit RHMLs. Leave the ECM to the falcon. There is a reason it is a specialized ECM ship that can be bridged by a BlOps BS.


exactly a marauder can't jump because if it could it would be op. and the weakness of it dropping in at 25% cap is there to balance all ships with jump drives

Or maybe a Maurader can't jump because it's not... wait for it... a BlOps BS.

So you are telling us that a BS that can do DPS and have a reasonable tank is OP? You do understand that having a BlOps BS do DPS and tank can be balanced right? That is all I want. I do not want a jumpable maurader. That would be stupid. I want nothing more than for a BlOps BS that can do DPS and tank in a reasonable and balanced manner.

You seems to mistake me advocating cap recharge to me saying a jump drive ship appearing on grid at 25% cap at best is wrong for BlOps. You should go reread what I said. I never advocated for anything different than a ship appearing on grid at 25% cap. What I am advocating for is a approach to making BlOps ships balanced.
Jason Pareka
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-08-11 23:03:05 UTC
to be honest other then the sin i find the Blops to be in a very good place the only change would be a small reduction in base jump cost(just under cruis lvl) but as is the do there job very well
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