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Role for Blackbird/Scorpion in small scale PvP
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Ace Merrill
Kador Defence Initiative
#1 - 2014-08-08 17:07:17 UTC
I'm a very (very) long retired player, recently returned to EVE and interested in making a fresh start for some PvP action - where and how is really yet to be determined (High sec wars, FW, low sec, null sec, I've not yet decided).

The problem is, ever since I first played, all the way back in 2003, I was Amarrian and skilled for Amarrian ships and weapons as a very loyal citizen for several years. Yet, I always had this itch I never scratched, this secret yearning to join in with all the Low Sec piracy that, back in the mists of time, revolved around 2 ships primarily - Blackbirds and Scorpions. Wherever you went in Low Sec, it was a good bet there would be a posse of Blackbirds and Scorpions ready to get you with e-war and then gank the heck out of you. That memory has stuck with me.

Now, I'm back, and, for the first time, flying Caldari ships. Yet the buzz on these ships seems to have died, I'm not seeing many fits posted, or stories of jammed and scrambled victims killed by these old school predators of space.

Do these ships have a role still to play in PvP? If I decide to train for them/buy them, is it feasible to think of some low sec piracy or combat, or are those days long gone?

i'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts.



Ace.
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#2 - 2014-08-08 18:13:36 UTC
Scorpions and Black birds do have a role in small gang PVP still, though i will warn you now if you choose to fly one and fly it well you will become the victim of peoples dislike of the whole ECM idea, You may be bountied, trolled, yelled, at, mailed, cried on, and exploded but your going to be swimming in tears doing it.

ECM is great for small gang because a good ewar pilot can jam a few of the enemy's key ships and turn the tide of a fight one way or the other. If you have a 5 on 3 engagement and the 3 pilot team has a Falcon or blackbird or what have you there is a significant chance they can win despite being outnumbered if the ECM jams the right ships. you can pick apart larger fleets with great ease that way.

to quote the gurista's training maual:
"Some Capsuleers deem ECM unfair or Dishonorable. Jam these ones first and kill them last"

Just remember the Key to ECM is range, dont be in brawling range stay 60-70 off and jam the enemy fleet as well as any drones they may send after you ( yes you can even jam drones ) or you could kill the drones before they close range with your own weapons and prioritize your jams on the ships. A Centurion pod is a good thing to have if you plan on flying them often and a falcon or rook is pretty much the end game jam ship ( 18.0 Point linked jams with Recon 5 so you can perma jam most cruisers and battlecruisers not running ECCM Protection mods )

Happy jamming, and may the tears fall with the frequency of the spring Monsoons

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#3 - 2014-08-08 20:45:29 UTC
The role for the blackbird and scorp in small scale PvP? Well there's the fight bringer....and then there's the blackbird and scorpion Big smile
Gordin Brott
Huvilma Sentinels
GunFam
#4 - 2014-08-08 22:35:29 UTC
A well-used jamming boat can work wonders, especially since most pvp is currently totally dependent upon remote repping. A Blackbird warping in at range once a fight is in progress can easily tip the balance in your favour, even if it only manages to jam the logi for a few moments.

Don't disregard the Griffin. They can be nastily effective, and make for a very cheap disposable jamming boat for learning the basics of ewar.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#5 - 2014-08-08 23:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Plato Forko
BB is great in armor fleets with logi but it's slow as balls and sticks out like a clown on a snow drift. if you do manage to stay off the radar, by the time you make the sloooow warp at 3AU/s most ganks or small gang fights will have already finished.

the Falcon, on the other hand, is well worth the cost. There are few things sweeter than being on grid, in position, completely unnoticed with an eye on your fleetmates via watchlist and an eye on the targets ready to pick the perfect moment to step into action. By the time they notice you, it'll be too late to stop you Cool
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#6 - 2014-08-09 00:47:57 UTC
The role is the fun killer.

/ecm should die

/tears
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-08-09 03:41:38 UTC
Ace Merrill wrote:
I'm a very (very) long retired player, recently returned to EVE and interested in making a fresh start for some PvP action - where and how is really yet to be determined (High sec wars, FW, low sec, null sec, I've not yet decided).

The problem is, ever since I first played, all the way back in 2003, I was Amarrian and skilled for Amarrian ships and weapons as a very loyal citizen for several years. Yet, I always had this itch I never scratched, this secret yearning to join in with all the Low Sec piracy that, back in the mists of time, revolved around 2 ships primarily - Blackbirds and Scorpions. Wherever you went in Low Sec, it was a good bet there would be a posse of Blackbirds and Scorpions ready to get you with e-war and then gank the heck out of you. That memory has stuck with me.

Now, I'm back, and, for the first time, flying Caldari ships. Yet the buzz on these ships seems to have died, I'm not seeing many fits posted, or stories of jammed and scrambled victims killed by these old school predators of space.

Do these ships have a role still to play in PvP? If I decide to train for them/buy them, is it feasible to think of some low sec piracy or combat, or are those days long gone?

i'd be interested in knowing people's thoughts.



Ace.


Blackbird is arguably the single most cost-efficient PVP ship in Eve.

Scorpion? Not so much...
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
Meta Reloaded
#8 - 2014-08-09 16:17:28 UTC
Man up and fly a Keres

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#9 - 2014-08-09 20:38:41 UTC
Bait tanked blackbirds without ECM can be really great for getting people to engage.
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#10 - 2014-08-09 21:07:31 UTC
**** ECM

Every small gang pilot will say the same unless they are the scrubs that use them and then they'll use the argument 'but tears'. If that's the pilot you want to be then by all means feel free to fly ecm.
Jonas Staal
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-08-09 21:43:12 UTC
While I dislike ECM, I also dislike boosted T3 gangs sitting on gates.

ECM would actualy be a good way to get away from them so dunno..
Ace Merrill
Kador Defence Initiative
#12 - 2014-08-09 22:36:05 UTC
Quite a range of responses, thank you all. At the very least it's good to know they do still have a role, though I suspect less of the pin and gank solo killing than the days of old.

Certainly plenty to think about. Pirate
Cephelange du'Krevviq
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#13 - 2014-08-10 02:10:56 UTC
I'll agree that Blackbird and its Tech 2 counterparts (Rook/Falcon) are great for small gang. Scorpions are slower to lock enemy targets, slower to get into warp and warp slower across a system (due to the changes this year).

Some folks love to whine about things they don't like, whether it's ECM, neutral reps, off-grid boosters or sentry drone Ishtars. Don't worry about what others whine about.

"I am a leaf on the...ah, frak it!"
Rovain Sess
Wu Fanged
#14 - 2014-08-10 03:50:59 UTC
Dont listen to the naysayers - jam away. Play the game as intended.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-08-10 17:27:01 UTC
chatgris wrote:
The role is the fun killer.

/ecm should die

/tears




naa it shoudl just CHANNGE. THey should make soemthign like swap that targets you have locked for other legal targets thatyou coudl have locked. So in a fight with several peopel you will still have enemeis locked.. so you are still playing. ECM woudl then only be good at dispersign concentration of firepower.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Alaric Faelen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2014-08-11 04:54:55 UTC
When in doubt, Blackbird.

They are great ships, which is why they are primaried so often Big smile
BB's fly well shield or armor tanked, so there are very few fleets where they aren't a good addition. They are especially good for disrupting enemy logi chains.

The Scorpion is a fine ship, but battleship fleets tend to be rather large- rarely are battleships seen in small scale combat since they really need a host of support ships to be effective. ECM ships in these fleets tend to be more of 'if you can't fly the main DPS battleship' sort of thing. For example the Apoc Navy Issue fleet doctrine is popular, but since I can't fly them very well, I would take a Scorpion instead.

The current meta favors sensor damping over ECM, so ships like the Celestis have taken over dominating the EWAR component of fleets.