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Stupid undercutting
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Kijimae
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-09 01:31:07 UTC
Can anyone explain, maybe because YOU are one of those or whatever, why people mean to undercut things for like 10-20 % of the value? Example Rigs, worth price is abt 10 mil, undercut to 8 mil and not a few rigs no, throw in like 30-40 rigs of which half might get sold that day. Are they just plain stupid or is it intentional to **** the price to the ground?
This is a question i always asked myself not only in EvE, in every other MMO Market i have played also. I really wonder whats the reason for stupidity like that because in the end those ppl will not sell any faster because of the amount they want to sell they will get undercut also. Look like they dont want to make any isk when undercutting like that so why even bother selling ****?

I am not frustrated, i am used to nonsense like that but i will never understand why ppl produce stuff in large amounts to just throw it away for nothing. As i said, they dont sell their **** faster due to the large undercut bec others will follow and undercut too. ********.
Nor Aken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-08-09 01:50:59 UTC
If they undercut for like 10-20% why you don't just buy everything and relist it. Easiest profit in the world.

To give an answer, their isk comes from volume and lower margins. They know their stuff will be sold relatively fast without having to attend those orders.
Team Bidders
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-08-09 02:02:48 UTC
Maybe because we have another 30-40 coming out tomorrow?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-08-09 02:21:00 UTC
sometimes i have too many things and just want my money as fast as possible. Not too worried about margin because I am worried about other things and am not a perfect trader.

I think something along the lines like that
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#5 - 2014-08-09 02:37:51 UTC
Kijimae wrote:
Can anyone explain, maybe because YOU are one of those or whatever, why people mean to undercut things for like 10-20 % of the value? Example Rigs, worth price is abt 10 mil, undercut to 8 mil and not a few rigs no, throw in like 30-40 rigs of which half might get sold that day. Are they just plain stupid or is it intentional to **** the price to the ground?
This is a question i always asked myself not only in EvE, in every other MMO Market i have played also. I really wonder whats the reason for stupidity like that because in the end those ppl will not sell any faster because of the amount they want to sell they will get undercut also. Look like they dont want to make any isk when undercutting like that so why even bother selling ****?

I am not frustrated, i am used to nonsense like that but i will never understand why ppl produce stuff in large amounts to just throw it away for nothing. As i said, they dont sell their **** faster due to the large undercut bec others will follow and undercut too. ********.

"not frustrated"
lol
SJ Astralana
Syncore
#6 - 2014-08-09 02:46:36 UTC
I would say the OP is exaggerating, as I've never seen a rig posted 20% below the pack ever. I've seen the occasional single item in an odd spot, but never a stack. However, if the cost of a rig is 8 and it's selling for 10, I guarantee you every time I undercut it will be 200k per. Odds are my operation is larger than yours, my costs are lower, my stocks are massively larger, I've been doing this since the beginning of time so I know for a fact I can outlast you, and I'm going to find at what point you'll stop .01 undercutting me or better move on to items that don't compete with me.

Hyperdrive your production business: Eve Production Manager

Netan MalDoran
Cathedral.
Stay Feral
#7 - 2014-08-09 06:00:11 UTC
It may be undercut so much because there is a lot of wiggle room.

For example, there is this one rig that will remain un-named that usually sells for something like 150k, but when I went to make it, I found that the parts only cost about 20k, so even if I reduced the price by 50% I'm still making 55k/unit.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
Kireitsugu Secheh
Les chips electriques
#8 - 2014-08-09 08:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Kireitsugu Secheh
Rowells wrote:
sometimes i have too many things and just want my money as fast as possible. Not too worried about margin because I am worried about other things and am not a perfect trader.

I think something along the lines like that


Well maybe.
But if you sell your dope for less than what it costs you (including hauling costs, and buying/selling taxes), you'll be emptying your wallet as fast as possible.

How to clone swap in worm holes
voetius
Grundrisse
#9 - 2014-08-09 08:38:13 UTC

It's not stupid undercutting OP, I'll try and push prices down so I can buy out all the cheap stuff, relocate it and sell it.

If people want to sell me stuff cheap that's their choice.
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#10 - 2014-08-09 08:44:02 UTC
Because a to big margin transformes customers into opposition.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#11 - 2014-08-09 09:16:32 UTC
Undercutting by a significant amount discourages other people from playing the 1 ISK undercutting game, and I really don't like having to adjust my market orders every 5 minutes...
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#12 - 2014-08-09 09:56:02 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
It may be undercut so much because there is a lot of wiggle room.

For example, there is this one rig that will remain un-named that usually sells for something like 150k, but when I went to make it, I found that the parts only cost about 20k, so even if I reduced the price by 50% I'm still making 55k/unit.


And sometimes you just want to dump some ****, but the available buy orders are so low you go "Lol, **** that ****" and just make your own sell orders, undercutting everyone on the market as deep as possible, so you don't have to wait for your money.
Jane Setan
Elliss
#13 - 2014-08-09 10:20:11 UTC
Kijimae wrote:
Can anyone explain, maybe because YOU are one of those or whatever, why people mean to undercut things for like 10-20 % of the value? Example Rigs, worth price is abt 10 mil, undercut to 8 mil and not a few rigs no, throw in like 30-40 rigs of which half might get sold that day. Are they just plain stupid or is it intentional to **** the price to the ground?
This is a question i always asked myself not only in EvE, in every other MMO Market i have played also. I really wonder whats the reason for stupidity like that because in the end those ppl will not sell any faster because of the amount they want to sell they will get undercut also. Look like they dont want to make any isk when undercutting like that so why even bother selling ****?

I am not frustrated, i am used to nonsense like that but i will never understand why ppl produce stuff in large amounts to just throw it away for nothing. As i said, they dont sell their **** faster due to the large undercut bec others will follow and undercut too. ********.


not everyone got time for stupid 0,01isk undercut
change market mechanic to whatever stock they want buy and allow them to buy from that and everyone will be happy
Charlie Nonoke
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#14 - 2014-08-09 12:47:48 UTC
A few reasons;
1) Not everyone plays by etiquette, some people play games to watch the world burn, or perhaps they want to **** you off.
2) Some guy gets cheap minerals, and produces cheaply, while still profiting from their sell.
3) Market PvP
4) Tears, which I'm afraid to tell you OP, you shed.
Kijimea
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-08-09 12:58:02 UTC
I dont undercut for 0.01 isk as well. Saying that undercutting by a significant amount would keep you from adjusting your order every 5 mins is wrong. As i said in particular rigs, one guy dumped down the price by a large amount, the isk you get per hour now producing that rig is dropped my 50 %. And because of his huge stack, others undercut him also and he didnt sell anything yet. It doesnt matter how much you undercut, if you sell too much you will get undercut as well and have to adjust just like before.
Undercutting by a large amount to sell faster might only work if you sell a few pieces.

Also saying that someone undercuts like that to buy cheap might be correct but looking at the market data, if that particular item gets sold ~50x a day and after prices fell like mad that item still gets sold 50x a day it means that this is not the case. So yeah, must be stupid.
I am glad i only sell rigs and unlike "Shelom Severasse" "lols" like a stupid kid, i am not frustraded because i am not dependent to one particular rig. As i said, i see this happening in every mmo. At least MMOs with an Auction House. Didnt have that **** in Ultima Online.
Dropping your isk / hour by 50 % is just stupid.
Ah and that example of an unnamed rig which sells for 150k with a cost of 20k - of course you can reduce the price and still make profit but why? why would you be that dumb to get less isk than you could? Because you think you will get rid of your stuff faster? No you dont, that is a problem everywhere. People think they can sell stuff faster when undercutting by large amounts and that is just so wrong.
I guess this phenomena is like "mining is for free". In no mmo farming stuff is for free, you dont need to be a scientist to know that.
Kijimea
Doomheim
#16 - 2014-08-09 13:04:10 UTC
Charlie Nonoke wrote:
A few reasons;
1) Not everyone plays by etiquette, some people play games to watch the world burn, or perhaps they want to **** you off.
2) Some guy gets cheap minerals, and produces cheaply, while still profiting from their sell.
3) Market PvP
4) Tears, which I'm afraid to tell you OP, you shed.


4) Sorry to disappoint you but making billions a week will never make me cry. I only try to understand how ppl can be so dumb, how they can even turn on their computer alone. Too much reasons which makes no sense.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#17 - 2014-08-09 14:50:10 UTC
Kijimea wrote:
I dont undercut for 0.01 isk as well. Saying that undercutting by a significant amount would keep you from adjusting your order every 5 mins is wrong. As i said in particular rigs, one guy dumped down the price by a large amount, the isk you get per hour now producing that rig is dropped my 50 %. And because of his huge stack, others undercut him also and he didnt sell anything yet. It doesnt matter how much you undercut, if you sell too much you will get undercut as well and have to adjust just like before.
Undercutting by a large amount to sell faster might only work if you sell a few pieces.


It works if you're competing against a station trader rather than a builder. The trader depends on the difference between buy and sell order to make profit, placing your order in the middle cuts his profit in half (and is likely to **** him off). In contrast, the profit margin of someone that build the items is reduced by significantly less (as builders will usually make profit even at buy order value). I don't know the details about your market, but for the items I produce, trying to sell anything at approximate sell order value will entangle you in a market war, while undercutting by 20% of the buy/sell difference will allow you to sell your stock at a reasonable rate (unless do something stupid like completely saturating the market).

As for why you'd accept smaller profit - cost of opportunity. Money bound in items that will sell over the next three months is money you wont be investing in anything during those three months.
Ms Forum Alt
Doomheim
#18 - 2014-08-09 16:49:46 UTC
Sometimes it just happens that you click to sell, then click OK without looking at the buyer's volume at that price. If there's any left over it gets listed at your sale price, as a sell order. This tends to happen if your intention is a quick sale and you're selling to buy orders of course. When I see it I usually cancel the order but this happens after 4 minutes or so, so it's possible with a fast moving market for that order price to become the new "low" in the sell orders list. This is especially true if you didn't realise the buy orders hadn't satisfied your sale volume and you don't then cancel it.

Of course there are also fools who want a "quick sale" so undercut the market and there are also buyers who will try to lower the entire market by putting these orders up. When I sell I make a judgement about that - usually based on the difference between the current sell order value and the next few. If it's significant then I just put mine up at the higher price and wait.

It's partly about patience I suppose (which many people don't have).
Kireitsugu Secheh
Les chips electriques
#19 - 2014-08-09 18:32:39 UTC
You hate big undercutings mmm ?

Do you like http://imgur.com/65BH7dY better ?

How to clone swap in worm holes
Julius Cabeki
Huola Industrial Development
#20 - 2014-08-09 19:10:38 UTC
If they eventually achieve monopoly it can improve their isk / effort ratio tremendously. It saves you from 0.01 iskers, allows you to use longer production runs with limited adjustments to the amounts produced, and lets you buy predermined amounts of raw materials. Ability to run four to six times more manufacturing alts may be more important for large producers than ability to maximize profit per character.
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