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Hyperion Design Goals

Author
Severn VonKarr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-08-07 18:19:35 UTC
I really have to question many of the design goals of the Hyperion update for wormholes. Numerous changes seem to be geared towards pushing wspace into a direction that is counter to what makes it appealing to players and a healthy part of eve. Consider the other types of space in eve: highsec, lowsec, npc null and sov space. In each and everyone one of these there is an exponential increase in capabilities with increasing numbers and as a result, they are a play ground for large blobs to own everything. Any one system can only support so many with the income that can be generated (with the exception of L4s which were nerfed to the ground). Due to the interconnectedness of highsec and the power projection problems of low and null, there is very little for smaller entities to do. Massive groups are able to control anything worth having by easily moving their members to decimate any smaller groups trying to get a leg up.

Wspace is different though. Most systems only have 1-3 connections at any time. Players have ways of closing or changing those connections. It is the limited interaction and potentially controllable interaction that allows Wspace to fill a niche in New Eden for smaller groups to grow with some hard work and dedication.

With a more interconnected and difficult to control Wspace through greater difficulty closing holes, more holes and new unclosable holes, it is no longer just a few systems you will have to worry about, but rather chains of systems that could potentially hold multiple groups that could work together to topple everything in view.

Although these changes will not affect the health of wspace, they will just change it into another null and hurt the health of New Eden as a whole by alienating all of the players that go into Wspace to escape the blobbing style that has become the small gang/solo gameplay destroying staple of the rest of Eve.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2014-08-07 18:55:24 UTC
This seems pretty dramatic. Before groups could work before to topple everything. Look at the start of this summer. This won't really change anything in that regard.

WH space is not turning into null, please stop being the millionth person to say this. In the end, holes will always roll in the end. Yes you can scan people in, but you could before. Use Orcas to roll, it's not THAT bad. If you're too scared to use an Orca, get BS instead and roll with those.

It's simply a matter of minor adaptions.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Severn VonKarr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2014-08-08 18:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Severn VonKarr
It's not dramatic, it's a logical conclusion based on existing trends. Yes people work together to topple stuff... in kspace. however it's extremely rare in wspace and requires considerable effort. Less connectivity=more manageable and sustainable interactions between smaller groups of players. More connectivity=unmanageable and unsustainable interactions between smaller and larger groups. I get that being part of an f1 blob might be fun for some, but most people like smaller groups where individual contributions are more meaningful. As blobbing has become more common place in kspace, the cries of "there's no content for pvp" have also become more common. If people want more content, braking the safety of blobbing is the way to do it. Leave wspace the way it is. Wspace corps looking for fights have already figured out their own way of getting content through existing mechanics.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#4 - 2014-08-08 18:44:50 UTC
Severn VonKarr wrote:
It's not dramatic, it's a logical conclusion based on existing trends. Yes people work together to topple stuff... in kspace. however it's extremely rare in wspace and requires considerable effort. Less connectivity=more manageable and sustainable interactions between smaller groups of players. More connectivity=unmanageable and unsustainable interactions between smaller and larger groups. I get that being part of an f1 blob might be fun for some, but most people like smaller groups where individual contributions are more meaningful. As blobbing has become more common place in kspace, the cries of "there's no content for pvp" have also become more common. If people want more content, braking the safety of blobbing is the way to do it. Leave wspace the way it is. Wspace corps looking for fights have already figured out their own way of getting content through existing mechanics.



Then they will HTFU and adapt or die. Simple.

you use more then one ship to close a hole and they protect themselves, this will in essence bring more fights as someone jumps into yoru space with a dread to close the link you will have a chance to actually engage and kill the dread before it jumps back out.

The ONLY change I personally dislike is the 'k162 do not spwn until you jump through' this will mean way fewer connections for getting out.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Shaklu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2014-08-08 18:56:08 UTC
I agree that there seems to be a pattern of anti small-corp and pro big-corp releases. It doesn't make much sense, judging by how poorly it has been received and the consequences of such design decisions historically.

The "Boost PVP at the expense of PVE" is a losing scenario, also. If you have no PVE, then the space dries up and the PVP goes away also. I'm not saying that PVE will be impossible post-changes, just that it will be much harder, especially for the C4 small corps that exist.

One of the reasons the CCP graph shows C4s as having much smaller activity levels is just because they are inhabited primarily by small corporations. It is rare for me to see a C4 with gobs of sites to run, unless it's a black hole system. That means that there are people going in there, and running sites, just not huge 100+ person corps to show a graph with high activity levels. The lower class WHs also get traffic from every upper class WH as they are usually the way out of J-space, so the numbers will be skewed because they also have residents, and they are used as roads between places.

All-in-all I agree that C4 systems should have more connectivity, but instead of small increases, in one's and two's, devs are slapping 3 big changes simultaneously onto them. The only thing I can see as a consequence are small corps being pushed out of WH space, which means less activity, which means less fights. It's a short-term solution to a problem that, frankly, never existed in the first place.
Shaklu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-08-08 19:02:25 UTC
DaReaper wrote:

Then they will HTFU and adapt or die. Simple.

That may work for a corp of 20-50 active players who span multiple timezones, however for 5-10 active player corps that are only active for 4-6 hours a day, it isn't an option to just "nickel plate your balls".
Severn VonKarr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-08-08 19:32:12 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Severn VonKarr wrote:
It's not dramatic, it's a logical conclusion based on existing trends. Yes people work together to topple stuff... in kspace. however it's extremely rare in wspace and requires considerable effort. Less connectivity=more manageable and sustainable interactions between smaller groups of players. More connectivity=unmanageable and unsustainable interactions between smaller and larger groups. I get that being part of an f1 blob might be fun for some, but most people like smaller groups where individual contributions are more meaningful. As blobbing has become more common place in kspace, the cries of "there's no content for pvp" have also become more common. If people want more content, braking the safety of blobbing is the way to do it. Leave wspace the way it is. Wspace corps looking for fights have already figured out their own way of getting content through existing mechanics.



Then they will HTFU and adapt or die. Simple.

you use more then one ship to close a hole and they protect themselves, this will in essence bring more fights as someone jumps into yoru space with a dread to close the link you will have a chance to actually engage and kill the dread before it jumps back out.

The ONLY change I personally dislike is the 'k162 do not spwn until you jump through' this will mean way fewer connections for getting out.


The roamers have already HTFUd, but the devs feel that even the most special bands of l33t fleets need some help... by alienating their prey into an unsustainable interaction. If these changes go live (and the existing increase in hole spawns continues), then within a year wspace will be as devoid of content as the rest of eve.