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Fifth Blade

Jump Drive Appreciation Society

Likes received: 103

#1161 - 2014-08-08 02:51:58 UTC | Edited by: Fifth Blade

Steve Ronuken wrote:

1.5 million m3 is a little more than a frigate cargohold.

Hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

As for the removal of slots meaning you can work with a single array, sure, that's a benefit. But if one isn't suitable, there's nothing stopping you using more.

Actually it does. It highlights just how insufficient the current capacity is. Going from 11m m3 in arrays > 1.5m m3 isn't viable. Keeping extra arrays isn't viable because of ship assembly arrays becoming viable (pos cpu/pwg limitations) and thus used by all pos owners who wish to produce hulls efficiently. You need to see the changes together, not in total isolation.

Now that a usable system exists that allows management remotely it is a tremendous waste to make it unusable to the very people who would benefit most. As previously stated, you can't even deliver remotely to start other jobs because of the limited capacity; no room for output. That is patently absurd.

suid0

Pandemic Horde Inc.

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 161

#1162 - 2014-08-08 07:12:03 UTC

CCP RubberBAND wrote:

Will bring this to the team for discussion.

About the blueprints jumping about could you please provide a video, we haven't received many reports regarding this and internal tests have been unsuccessful, a video would be immensely helpful.

I can't speak for others by my issues of the blueprints jumping around has almost completely stopped since the 1.8 patch. stealth fix?

If it does start up again I'll try to get a vid

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones - Commander Ted

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#1163 - 2014-08-08 08:32:15 UTC

Jon Lucien wrote:

CCP RubberBAND wrote:

Aryth wrote:

Retar Aveymone wrote:

I have posted about this before but I do not see it on the known issues list:

Amarr outposts are supposed to get a .5 multiplier on the install cost. We do not appear to be receiving that. Could we get confirmation this issue is known and being resolved? It's a rather large amount of money we're dealing with in our most popular station, 2R-CRW.

Quoting as this is a fairly large one still impacting null. (Thanks for the mouseover fix though!)

We are aware of this and investigating, but this may not be an issue. The data and code are working correctly, the blog may be out of date. Will confirm, but you are not going to see any changes (if any) until future releases.

I just want to point out that this is contradictory to 2 blogs.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-price-of-change/ (April 29, 2014)

"System facilities: stations in a given system make a job cheaper. We want to ensure that the landscape is lumpy rather than flat, and it makes sense that systems with more stations (and more factory or research stations in particular) are better places to do specialized work. Every station in a system has two facility multipliers -- one for manufacturing and one for research -- and the system's various multipliers are all multiplied together and then multiplied with the price. (We do a lot of multiplication with pricing, and we therefore wield large calculators)

For NPC stations, these multipliers range between 0.95 and 0.98, based on how well the station's activity (factory, testing facility, warehouse etc) is judged to be suited to building and/or researching things. Stations can have different ratings for manufacturing and research. These are not huge numbers, but because they multiply together they can have a big effect. In manufacturing, the current record-holder in empire space is Nonni, with a multiplier of around 0.48 - building things in Nonni will, all other things being equal, halve the cost of installing a job.

For conquerables and outposts, we wanted to keep things pretty competitive despite being limited to one per system, so their multipliers range between 0.5 (manufacturing in an Amarr outpost or researching in a Caldari one) and 0.8 (all jobs in a Refining conquerable).

A couple of things should be noted here. First, these bonuses apply system-wide, including to jobs installed in starbases. Second, keep in mind that this is still a smallish percentage of the total build cost -- it's not a 50% reduction in build cost, it's a 50% reduction in job installation costs which are typically (well) below 10% of build cost."

And later
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/ (July 17, 2014 5 days before Crius)

"1. A reduction in price based on the stations and upgrades present in a system. Stations, Factional Warfare upgrades and certain outpost upgrades provide beneficial multipliers to costs. For any applicable job in a given system, the multipliers for all the stations and upgrades in that system are multiplied together with the base price. See Appendix 2 for a full list."

You guys posted this information 5 days before Crius was released. Taking this feature out would remove a reason for players to choose to build in some systems rather than others. Facility bonuses helped differentiate systems from each other.

Well it sure looks like an issue to me, and one that should be fixed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Aliastra Gallente Federation 38
KATASKOPOS Aliastra Gallente Federation Likes received: 38	#1164 - 2014-08-08 10:31:11 UTC Not sure if it is mentioned (no time to read 50+ pages), but is this shown on the photo known? Am I going to be filthy rich? Inveted 2x run tech II BPC "outcomes" x10? items after manufactured!

Leon Darkfall

Velators at Dawn

Likes received: 2

#1165 - 2014-08-08 13:23:45 UTC

A few things that have been bothering me since the expansion release:

Shift select and deliver jobs doesn't work. This is pretty significant for corp jobs when you only own some of them.
No compact view of the top half of the industry window. I don't want it to be hidden entirely, just a space-efficient version of it.
The skills required tooltip gets in the way. While the information is sometimes useful, I mouse over it by mistake all the time and it's just annoying. Can't change runs accurately while it's up.
Not enough cargo in some of the starbase arrays

Noriko Mai

Likes received: 2,173

#1166 - 2014-08-08 13:42:25 UTC | Edited by: Noriko Mai

I have a new bug since today (haven't done industry yesterday).

Blueprints already in use show up as available in the 'Blueprints' tab. I can select them and the 'START' button ist yellow, but if I click start it says the BP is already in use and the 'Blueprints' tab freezes. Reopening the industry window helps, but I have to try which BPs are useable. If I pick the wrong one it freezes again and I have to reopen and try another one. I can still switch tabs and the other tabs seem alright. The jobs are showing in the 'Jobs' tab. But the 'Blueprints' tab just freezes.

And this:

Leon Darkfall wrote:

A few things that have been bothering me since the expansion release:

[...]
No compact view of the top half of the industry window. I don't want it to be hidden entirely, just a space-efficient version of it.
The skills required tooltip gets in the way. While the information is sometimes useful, I mouse over it by mistake all the time and it's just annoying. Can't change runs accurately while it's up.
[...]

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Brock Nelson

Likes received: 730

#1167 - 2014-08-08 14:11:33 UTC | Edited by: Brock Nelson

Noriko Mai wrote:

Leon Darkfall wrote:

A few things that have been bothering me since the expansion release:

[...]
No compact view of the top half of the industry window. I don't want it to be hidden entirely, just a space-efficient version of it.
The skills required tooltip gets in the way. While the information is sometimes useful, I mouse over it by mistake all the time and it's just annoying. Can't change runs accurately while it's up.
[...]

Confirming this

I have a few alts that I've started manufacturing jobs and when I tried to start jobs on a different alt, got the message that the job couldn't be submitted. I moused over the start button and it said that blueprint was in use. I scrolled through the blueprint window and found that every blueprint was available, despite knowing that some of them were currently in use.

Edit: It just started happening today, had no issue since Crius came out unitl now. Had no issue starting invention jobs though.

Signature removed, CCP Phantom

Angie Chatter

Likes received: 26

#1168 - 2014-08-08 14:38:22 UTC | Edited by: Angie Chatter

Brock Nelson wrote:

I had this problem several times in Crius, the way to "fix" this is to remember or randomly try a BPC that is not already used, ignoring what the UI displays. If u manage to start a job the UI will than update and display the correct list.

So basically try using blueprints from the end of the list, under the assumption u started on top with your other toons.

Drago Shouna

Doomheim

Likes received: 751

#1169 - 2014-08-08 15:47:45 UTC

I have no idea if this has been mentioned yet but here goes.

When you click the info button on ores when mining, some are saying that that type gives +10%, +5% etc, but some ores don't.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

Noriko Mai

Likes received: 2,173

#1170 - 2014-08-08 16:08:17 UTC

Angie Chatter wrote:

Brock Nelson wrote:

I had this problem several times in Crius, the way to "fix" this is to remember or randomly try a BPC that is not already used, ignoring what the UI displays. If u manage to start a job the UI will than update and display the correct list.

So basically try using blueprints from the end of the list, under the assumption u started on top with your other toons.

As mentioned in my post, this doesn't work for me. All BPs still show as available. The workaround ist to try different BPs that you think are not in use (again and again, because the Blueprint tab freezes). I haven't found a fix or workaround to display which are available.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Blue Harrier

Likes received: 225

#1171 - 2014-08-08 16:56:29 UTC

Could anyone tell me the reason for the following;

I take a load of ‘stuff’ (Ore, Ice whatever) to my Tower (warp to zero bookmark at the tower), ship stops, open hold and drag and drop ‘stuff’ into Reprocessing Array.

Right click select Reprocess and I get a message I must be 3,000 Mtrs or less from the Array to do that. Yet as soon as the ‘stuff’ is reprocessed I can drag and drop it into any of the other facilities in the tower. I can also drag and drop anything from a facility to either the tower storage or back to my ship without moving so why do I have to be so close to the damn array to reprocess stuff?

Oh yes and why can’t I drag and drop stacks of reprocessed stuff on to each other yet they will stack (eventually) with a ‘Stack All’ command?

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.

Terminator 2

Omega Boost

Likes received: 48

#1172 - 2014-08-08 18:13:34 UTC

Blue Harrier wrote:

Because God wanted it that way. Next topic for you is to complain about the speed of light.

Star Freaks 121
Dominus Alterai Star Freaks Likes received: 121	#1173 - 2014-08-08 18:35:43 UTC \| Edited by: Dominus Alterai It seems my Large mobile warp disruptor BP has had the resource cost increased by a factor of 10. Tritanium, for instance, from about 251K to 2.5 million. Was this one of the intended changes with the 1.8 patch? Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.

Ydnari

Estrale Frontiers

Likes received: 435

#1174 - 2014-08-08 19:45:35 UTC

Stickyhand wrote:

Steve Ronuken wrote:

As for the removal of slots meaning you can work with a single array, sure, that's a benefit. But if one isn't suitable, there's nothing stopping you using more.

The reduction in the number of arrays is entirely theoretical for any serious industrialist. You fill the array instantly, even on a weekly build cycle. You still have to calculate exactly which materials to put in each array for specific components because of the severely limited capacity and often they don't fit anyway.

As others have apparently dubbed it - this "material-tetris" is neither useful or entertaining gameplay, and does indeed negate your ability to remotely start jobs (a major benefit of the expansion - if only it were usable by those that produce in a pos at scale).

Hopefully we can get a serious response on this issue.

This does seem like a case of improving one then and then weirdly negating it by not considering side effects; 1m m3 was fine when they had 10 slots each, now they have "infinite" slots - so increasing them in some proportion to how many arrays would have previously been up seems reasonable.

Surely people would have had at least 3 to 5 of them up, it not considerably more? So 5m m3 or so sounds more reasonable.

Ydnari

Estrale Frontiers

Likes received: 435

#1175 - 2014-08-08 19:50:58 UTC

Leon Darkfall wrote:

A few things that have been bothering me since the expansion release:

Shift select and deliver jobs doesn't work. This is pretty significant for corp jobs when you only own some of them.

This has been posted about before and CCP Nullarbor said he'd look into it, but it's gone quiet since, hope it's not been forgotten; this was something I used all the while and I am missing it.

See here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4820436#post4820436

Quote:

No compact view of the top half of the industry window. I don't want it to be hidden entirely, just a space-efficient version of it.

This does need doing too, there's lots of operations that only need the bottom half of the window; and I have to keep making my window bigger to use industry at all.

Quote:

The skills required tooltip gets in the way. While the information is sometimes useful, I mouse over it by mistake all the time and it's just annoying. Can't change runs accurately while it's up.

This one is just plain infuriating.

Angie Chatter

Likes received: 26

#1176 - 2014-08-08 20:18:50 UTC | Edited by: Angie Chatter

Ydnari wrote:

Quote:

The skills required tooltip gets in the way. While the information is sometimes useful, I mouse over it by mistake all the time and it's just annoying. Can't change runs accurately while it's up.

[/list]

This one is just plain infuriating.

Indeed this always happens to me if i try to enter a new "runs" number, since 70% of the time if u move the mouse from the bottom of the screen to the input field, u end up triggering this tool-tip pop-up and now have to wait for it to fade away, so u can enter your number.

What also bugs me is the speed at which jobs are delivered, why does it take 0.5-1s per job to-be delivered and sometimes its only 0.1s?

Can u also make the default "focus" position after a new BPC is selected on the "start" field, so we can just hit enter, without mouse interaction, for repeated jobs? Btw why not allow us to multi select (shift/ctrl) all BPC we want and let them install in one single click?

Atm i use the arrow keys to select the next BPC, but than still have to click left mouse, while positioning on the "start" field. It would be smoother, if arrow-down + enter would be all i need.

GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1,123
Retar Aveymone GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation Likes received: 1,123	#1177 - 2014-08-09 02:48:35 UTC You should stop including the cost of the interface in an invention job cost estimate. Only the datacores and decryptor should be considered (and bpc, if you can).

Just a Hick

Likes received: 8

#1178 - 2014-08-09 10:53:47 UTC

Manufacturing job finished so I hit the Deliver button.

Wanted to do another Manufacturing run using the same BPO, so switched over to the Blueprint tab and scrolled down to that same BPO.

The BPO was greyed out. So switched back over to the Jobs and saw no job running. Switched back to the Blueprints tab and the BPO was still greyed out.

The Start button said that the BPO was unavailable. But I tried pressing Start anyway. Sure enough, the job started up just fine even though the Start button was red.

Yvonne Paaltomo

Chanuur

The Initiative.

Likes received: 3

#1179 - 2014-08-09 14:29:02 UTC

Yvonne Paaltomo wrote:

R.A.M. amount for t2 seems to be incorrect too. For example the claymore:
Pre crius: 15 at 95% damage = 13.30
Post crius: 23

Have RAMS been rebalanced but did you forget about the * 100?

Quote:

Some Tech 2 items contain Tech 1 materials are requirements

Since when is a crane not a T2 item or Megacyte not a T1 material? Next weekend I have time to download new SDE and give you a list on all T2 items that use T1 materials are as CCP fails to do so themselves.

Both have been mentioned before in this thread, but guess they're not issues? Or are the patch notes and dev blogs out of date?

Oh well, too be expected from developers that take 2+ years to fix really simple bugs.

C C P C C P Alliance 14,980
CCP Fozzie C C P C C P Alliance Likes received: 14,980	#1180 - 2014-08-09 16:39:22 UTC The material requirement increase for Mobile Bubbles was indeed larger than intended. The Crane and the other T2 ships with Megacyte in their build cost are also defects, and we're looking into them. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie