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Crime & Punishment

 
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Goonswarm taking candy from babies via a legitimate looking website.
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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#121 - 2011-11-25 02:08:41 UTC
Nathan Jameson wrote:
Ngoa wrote:
pubbies don't really count as people


I shave mine.


So you stick close to your TESTies?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
The Virgin ohnousuck
Newby corporation
#122 - 2011-12-08 14:06:36 UTC
the amount of stupidity....
The Virgin ohnousuck
Newby corporation
#123 - 2011-12-08 14:32:27 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
t's called "misplacing your trust". I can do the same in real life without any kind of troubles. Why ? You didn't sign any kind of contract. Everything you give to me, I'll consider it a donation, and since no contracts have been signed by you, I can do whatever the fsck I feel like doing.

No contracts between you and me => No obligation for me. Simple as that.



The only incorrect thing in your post. Oral contracts have the exact same force as written contracts (the details are harder to prove) and are litigated upon every day. An oral agreement is a contract if it meets certain requirements. So, while the recruitment scam is perfectly fine (and hilarious) in game, in RL trying things like it and defending yourself with "But I didn't sign anything" will get you laughed out of the courtroom (into jail, possibly).


actually what he's saying is the truth, but no one cares. no one gives a damned about video games in court.
Also, Isk never has and never will be your's. it belongs to CCP. can't sue for something that's not your's.
Justin Credulent
Luv You Long Time
#124 - 2011-12-08 15:36:54 UTC
scamming via the recruitment channel is considered a petitionable offense, and i suggest you send a detailed email including screenshots and chat logs to: support@eve-online.com

Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#125 - 2011-12-08 17:09:07 UTC
Been playing this game for 6 years nearly and people still fall for this.

You know what, it's still funny.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#126 - 2011-12-08 17:11:47 UTC
This is all totally legit. Whenever you hear this same old story it is because someone has paid the deposit then turned out to be a spy or killed a blue at which point their deposit money is used to reimburse those that were effected.

It isn't a difficult concept and it does help keep the spies out.

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
Captain Nathaniel Butler
The White Company
#127 - 2011-12-08 17:12:50 UTC
Justin Credulent wrote:
scamming via the recruitment channel is considered a petitionable offense, and i suggest you send a detailed email including screenshots and chat logs to: support@eve-online.com



The scam happened outside the recruitment channel.

I find it helps to read the OP before commenting on itBlink

Lady Spank for C&P moderator.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#128 - 2011-12-08 21:39:07 UTC
The Virgin ohnousuck wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
t's called "misplacing your trust". I can do the same in real life without any kind of troubles. Why ? You didn't sign any kind of contract. Everything you give to me, I'll consider it a donation, and since no contracts have been signed by you, I can do whatever the fsck I feel like doing.

No contracts between you and me => No obligation for me. Simple as that.



The only incorrect thing in your post. Oral contracts have the exact same force as written contracts (the details are harder to prove) and are litigated upon every day. An oral agreement is a contract if it meets certain requirements. So, while the recruitment scam is perfectly fine (and hilarious) in game, in RL trying things like it and defending yourself with "But I didn't sign anything" will get you laughed out of the courtroom (into jail, possibly).


actually what he's saying is the truth, but no one cares. no one gives a damned about video games in court.
Also, Isk never has and never will be your's. it belongs to CCP. can't sue for something that's not your's.


The fact that any video game disagreement will get laughed out of court is beside the point.

Oral contracts do have the contractual force. Although, depending on jurisdiction their scope may be limited and it's pretty stupid to trust someone you don't know to uphold their end of an oral contract with no persistant method of recording the details of the contract.

So written or oral, a contract dealing with issues arising from the gameplay of a videogame will be laughed out of court, but it won't be because "OOooh, Nobody SIGNED anything"

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba
Crunchy Crunchy
#129 - 2011-12-08 22:35:15 UTC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_crime

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/10/dutch-court-imposes-real-world-punishment-for-virtual-theft.ars

Just to clear this up and give weight to it.... I'm a real person who can use Google......

... I'm also Batman!
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#130 - 2011-12-08 22:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Krios Ahzek
FlinchingNinja Kishunuba wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_crime

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2008/10/dutch-court-imposes-real-world-punishment-for-virtual-theft.ars

Just to clear this up and give weight to it.... I'm a real person who can use Google......

... I'm also Batman!



''The decision came in the case of a 16-year-old boy charged with beating another teenager in the victim's room and stealing virtual property. ''

Yeah, if I batter down your door in order to punch you in the face and wire all your ISK to my character, I can see how that's a crime

It's not game mechanics, it's an actual crime

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
Krios Ahzek
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2011-12-08 22:59:15 UTC
Whereas recruitment scamming is more like giving a total stranger 20000$ cash then regretting it.

 Though All Men Do Despise Us
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#132 - 2011-12-09 00:41:54 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
The Virgin ohnousuck wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
SMT008 wrote:
t's called "misplacing your trust". I can do the same in real life without any kind of troubles. Why ? You didn't sign any kind of contract. Everything you give to me, I'll consider it a donation, and since no contracts have been signed by you, I can do whatever the fsck I feel like doing.

No contracts between you and me => No obligation for me. Simple as that.



The only incorrect thing in your post. Oral contracts have the exact same force as written contracts (the details are harder to prove) and are litigated upon every day. An oral agreement is a contract if it meets certain requirements. So, while the recruitment scam is perfectly fine (and hilarious) in game, in RL trying things like it and defending yourself with "But I didn't sign anything" will get you laughed out of the courtroom (into jail, possibly).


actually what he's saying is the truth, but no one cares. no one gives a damned about video games in court.
Also, Isk never has and never will be your's. it belongs to CCP. can't sue for something that's not your's.


The fact that any video game disagreement will get laughed out of court is beside the point.

Oral contracts do have the contractual force. Although, depending on jurisdiction their scope may be limited and it's pretty stupid to trust someone you don't know to uphold their end of an oral contract with no persistant method of recording the details of the contract.

So written or oral, a contract dealing with issues arising from the gameplay of a videogame will be laughed out of court, but it won't be because "OOooh, Nobody SIGNED anything"


I'd like you to orally contract aids.
Slave Child D
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#133 - 2011-12-09 00:43:31 UTC
This is one of the most enjoyable threads I have ever seen, on any forum. Thanks to all for making the past 30 minutes fun Smile
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#134 - 2011-12-09 06:14:32 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Nathan Jameson wrote:
Ngoa wrote:
pubbies don't really count as people


I shave mine.


So you stick close to your TESTies?


Zing! Glad I came back to this thread.

http://www.wormholes.info
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#135 - 2011-12-09 06:43:44 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:

I'd like you to orally contract aids.


^^^ This is why I don't screw the skinny, diseaseified c***s.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Stalking Mantis
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#136 - 2011-12-09 09:42:51 UTC
Hero Tackler wrote:
DrunkenNinja wrote:
I knew Goons scammed people... but this is something else XD
www.goonfleet.net
In the recruitment channel, type something like "Australian active pilot looking for pvp corp!" (etc) and you may well be approached by a Goon.... who will give you this link :P.
After looking at your API key he will determine a security deposit that is "fair" (for me it was 30 mil, about a third of what I had in my wallet at the time) and give you a sponsorship key.
You heard me, a sponsorship key. Goonfleet actually endorse this behaviour to the point that they made a phony website for more efficient scamming. GG WP.

Wait, 30 mil, you ask? Why would Goons talk to you for an extended period of time just to get 30 mil?

It seems not only do Goons conduct the big, well known "500 mil security deposit, we promise we'll give it right back!" scams, they also enjoy targeting noobs P. I was lucky I only lost 30 mil.


This may seem obvious to some, but don't give ISK to join Goonswarm (or any other corp really), no matter how nice they seem or how legit their websites look =)


Scamming people in game, ok fine because internet spaceships are serious business right? But using an autonomous website out of game to scam people for whatever, there may be real world legal issues here. I shall investigate and see if we can bring a class-action lawsuit against the Goonswarm Federation and CCP for facilitating this real world scam through their ingame channels.

Progress- Here we go, looks like it's an FBI issue http://www.ic3.gov/crimeschemes.aspx

Looks like there's some real world implications here since isk has an actual dollar value by virtue of PLEX, I think CCP should promptly disband Goonswarm and ban whoever approved this to protect themselves from any liability. At least you can report the website and Alexander Gianturco, who presents himself as the leader of Goonfleet/ Goonswarm http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-09-eurogamer-interviews-the-eve-council-chairman-interview to the FBI (internet crimes division) and the website scam will be investigated/ shutdown if they promise things and do not deliver on services/ goods (scam).


Someone really hates goonz. Trying to get Mittens in trouble with the FBI because of what some random DOOD did on the internet. Your hidden agenda is not so hidden.

Also dude that FBI thing you linked is to raise awareness. The law does not protect idiots. Might as well walk into a police station and tell them some dude at your local 7/11 sold you magic beans. I assure you they will laugh and point at you.

Also posting in this weeks 'I got the old goon recruitment scam' , HI MOM, HI MITTENS

Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare -->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#137 - 2011-12-09 12:52:29 UTC
Stalking Mantis wrote:


Someone really hates goonz. Trying to get Mittens in trouble with the FBI because of what some random DOOD did on the internet. Your hidden agenda is not so hidden.

Also dude that FBI thing you linked is to raise awareness. The law does not protect idiots. Might as well walk into a police station and tell them some dude at your local 7/11 sold you magic beans. I assure you they will laugh and point at you.

Also posting in this weeks 'I got the old goon recruitment scam' , HI MOM, HI MITTENS



Walking into a Police Station with the magic beans story might get laughs, but it would be a legitimate (still silly) case due to false advertisement and other consumer protection laws. Now, the dude who sold them to you won't get caught, you won't get your money back, but you might get a police report so you can frame it and display our idiocy to the world.

Going in talking about an MMO scam won't even get you the police report.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#138 - 2011-12-09 21:37:28 UTC
Azelor Delaria wrote:
That portion is up for debate. By CCP "legally" selling their in-game currency via the PLEX, it's a very possible crime being committed. Would a judge consider it? Possibly, only in the need to set a precedent. But honestly, the filing fees would probably be more than the $20.00 USD you were scammed out of.


With PLEX, you're buying game time, not virtual currency. CCP does not and has never directly sold ISK.

In this case, you're buying the right to redeem an in-game item that can be traded with another player for ISK. If you took a PLEX and traded it for, say, a Hulk, only to be ganked, you'd be stupid to even suggest that the ganker has any civil or criminal liability.

Hurr.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2011-12-10 08:09:08 UTC
lol this thread still going??

I find it disheartening that some are still pushing the 'it's a crime, punish the guilty' angle.

My virtual world/space ship Goon friends are only being civic minded individuals and should be treated as such.

Cheer them on, don't hate.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2011-12-10 16:08:32 UTC
I know it's been said many times in this thread already, but CCP owns all ingame items and lets us move them around within a set of certain game mechanics.

On the Runescape example, were I Jagex, I would probably contact that court and point out that the items in question did not belong to those individuals, but to Jagex. That court had no right to treat those items as belonging to the account holders if the EULA for Runsecape says that the items belong to Jagex. However, the illegal use of another person's account (and assault and such) would seem like theft of a service than theft of virtual goods. I think it would be more akin to (this is in the Netherlands, after all) Person A hiring a prostitute and Person B threatening Person A if Person A does not instruct the prostitute (who does not give a **** as long as she is payed) to transfer services to Person B.

I was curious, so I checked here: http://www.jagex.com/g=runescape/terms/terms.ws

"Virtual currency does not have any inherent value and is not your own private property. You can only use them to acquire those Items which we decide in our discretion to offer in return for virtual currency. We do not provide any cash or refunds for virtual currency (except as required by law) and virtual currency does not have any real-world value. Virtual currency is for your personal use only. You must not sell or transfer it or make it available to anyone else or attempt to do so or encourage anyone else to do any of these things."