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The business case for removing the NeX
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2011-12-08 20:26:36 UTC
Beaches wrote:
20 Icelanders don't belong in a sandbox, they've never even been in a sandbox. There is no sand in Iceland it is all volcanic rock and ash.
…and black sand. Blink
Solhild
Doomheim
#42 - 2011-12-08 20:29:02 UTC
Covert Kitty wrote:
Quote:
Nothing wrong with NEX, use it or do not. For some players it may very well add value to the game experience and for others, they may never even touch it but to not have it at all....that doesn't make sense.

I don't want to get rid of the items that currently NeX is supplying, nor the idea of WiS, or better character customization. I like the idea of all these things. However they should be obtained from gameplay, and like any other item in the game, anyone given enough isk could buy it from other players on the market. It's the NeX itself that I want gone, replaced by gameplay for those items / features.


This.
Qin Shi Huang
Doomheim
#43 - 2011-12-08 20:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Qin Shi Huang
Tippia wrote:
Zakuak wrote:
Nothing wrong with NEX
…except that it steals away content from the normal industrial-economy cycle.
Qin Shi Huang wrote:
Untangible benefits in a business case should always be quantifyable. They are "uncalculable" but you can still assign a dollar amount to an expected benefit.
True, but I don't think they expected it to (in part) cause a loss of income in the order of $2–4 million. Blink


I think you're right and the business case needs to be updated with the new information - it's a dynamic document and a very easy way to evaluate the project managers performance at the awards ceremony/post mortem (strike as you fancy).

New item to business case:
Close the NEX Store.
Cost: One dev hour @400 USD (all-in)
Benefit: 2 mill USD in perceived goodwill from EVE commuity in year one Shocked

Edit: *INTANGIBLE ... doh

.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#44 - 2011-12-08 20:44:23 UTC
This thread is a hardcore covert troll thread so i just HAD to stop by to learn from the masters....


internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Garbad theWeak
#45 - 2011-12-08 20:51:05 UTC
Nex was a serious blunder. Like most of you, I am not interested in pretty pony content and also I dislike pushing microtransactions into a subscription game. One or the other, not both. At this point CCP has the sunk cost of Nex. They WILL try to utilize it over time. That's the risk. We can hope they limit it to cosmetic stuff, the whole concept of microtransactions just doesn't fit with eve and should be removed.

They came close to killing the golden goose with nex already. We riots and desperate moves to regain goodwill show that. The question is how long passes before they try to slip it back in.
Qin Shi Huang
Doomheim
#46 - 2011-12-08 20:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Qin Shi Huang
Cipher Jones wrote:
This thread is a hardcore covert troll thread so i just HAD to stop by to learn from the masters....




Define trolling. The NEX store is a manifestation - and ever present reminder - of the incarnage failure to deliver on the business case.

.
Imryn Xaran
Coherent Light Enterprises
#47 - 2011-12-08 20:55:44 UTC
I am one of those players who unsubbed back in the summer. Since then I have (obviously) resubbed my 3 accounts. The reason I came back was that I thought that CCP had genuinely had a change of heart, and I liked what I was hearing about their new plans. This doesn't mean that I am not watching them like a hawk for any signs of back-sliding.

I don't have a problem with any of the items in the NeX store - but I do have the problem with the store itself. As long as it exists it is a threat because it allows CCP to drop anything into the game with no notice or warning. After downtime one day we could find ships in there - think about that.

All content that enters the game should come through player activity. All the stuff we see in NeX now should have been introduced through existing (or new) loyalty stores. If you want to dress your avatar up in a Caldari navy uniform thats fine - run missions for them and buy the uniform from the loyalty store. When ship skins come out they should be available in the appopriate LP store as either BPC's or BPO's.

As long as it exists the NeX store is a threat to game balance, and a temptation to CCP.

Finally f2p is a big joke. The only mmo's that are f2p are end of life grade A mmo's where the developer is trying to squeeze a bit more money out of them (AoC, LoTRO etc) or second rate rubbish games like the perfect world trash. If CCP were considering switching to a f2p model for EVE it really would be the end of the game, and a sure signal that they did not intend to continue developing it.
Stella SGP
#48 - 2011-12-08 20:58:40 UTC
Beaches wrote:
Things in EVE should be created by players. Anyone who disagrees or proposes anything not in conformity with that premise is an ignorant charlatan!

20 Icelanders don't belong in a sandbox, they've never even been in a sandbox. There is no sand in Iceland it is all volcanic rock and ash.

Only someone living off of a diet of shark **** would interpret WiS and establishments as an opportunity to try and sell 25$ digital shirts. Looking at you Iceland.

Wow since when did North Koreans get access to the intertubes.
Solhild
Doomheim
#49 - 2011-12-08 20:59:12 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
This thread is a hardcore covert troll thread so i just HAD to stop by to learn from the masters....




At least throw your oar in!
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2011-12-08 21:17:11 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
Quote:
Nothing wrong with NEX, use it or do not. For some players it may very well add value to the game experience and for others, they may never even touch it but to not have it at all....that doesn't make sense.

I don't want to get rid of the items that currently NeX is supplying, nor the idea of WiS, or better character customization. I like the idea of all these things. However they should be obtained from gameplay, and like any other item in the game, anyone given enough isk could buy it from other players on the market. It's the NeX itself that I want gone, replaced by gameplay for those items / features.


This.


^that

like, a lot.
Gummy Plaude
Doomheim
#51 - 2011-12-08 21:27:46 UTC
Quote:


A couple of days programming time to reallocate the NeX store clothes to the character designer / placed in loyalty point stores ...



It's easier for me to go isk > Nex > stuff than LP > stuff

just saying.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#52 - 2011-12-08 22:22:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Covert Kitty
Quote:
This thread is a hardcore covert troll thread so i just HAD to stop by to learn from the masters....

While I appreciate the complement, I'm not trolling. I very honestly believe that the NeX is a serious threat to the future of EvE, not just for us the players, but long term to CCP as well.

Microtransactions received a lot of publicity because of the amount of money it generated on a good amount of utterly terrible games. In some cases people were surprised to find out how much money could be extracted from people by providing so little (farmville). The MMO business community was also surprised how well it worked to save all those horrible wow clones that were created. Perhaps they shouldn't have just copied wow to begin with? Eve didn't, and it has grown steadily the whole time.

Most games, in any business model, fail. Eve is a great model for how to succeed with a niche idea. It was inspired from the start by a very non traditional game design idea. A sandbox mmo, harsh world, risk/reward, no level grinding, find your own fun. Even now this is pretty unique, its where Eve really has its draw, and why the NeX is such a direct assault on EvE's central nature.

I remember when I was a kid, our family had a sandbox. I would build castles, and houses, flood parts of it to make a river, or even build a dam out of sand to see how much water I could hold on one side of it. I'd also extract the powder out of blackcat's and pack it into paper cylinders with rocks, and fire them at tinfoil people standing on top of a sand fort. There were also times I'd build a little prison out of sticks and sand, put butterflies inside and lite them all on fire. Well..... thats EvE in a nutshell.

With the great success of non mmo sandbox games like Terraria and Minecraft, sandbox MMO's I think are the next big thing. CCP needs to get busy polishing and expanding on EvE's central merit's in order to ensure its continued success.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#53 - 2011-12-08 22:23:47 UTC
Gummy Plaude wrote:
It's easier for me to go isk > PLEX > AUR > Nex > stuff than LP > stuff

just saying.
Fixed. With that in mind, is it easier than ISK > stuff?
Gummy Plaude
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-12-08 22:32:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gummy Plaude wrote:
It's easier for me to start computer > Click on the EVE icon > Fill EVE account username and Password > Select my character > Wait Loading > Click on the market icon > purchase PLEX > Click on the NEX icon > redeem PLEX > > Select the stuff than LP > stuff

just saying.
Fixed. With that in mind, is it easier than ISK > stuff?


Fixed your fussy fix.
ghost st
Sua Sponte
#55 - 2011-12-08 22:40:27 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
I really liked reading your post,
but i don't see any reason why the NeX store should go away.

It's there. The only reason it has impact on you is simply because
you have a problem with it.

It does not have any effect on me, for example,
as i simply don't give a **** about it.

NeX is not a symbol of "change", it simply is a store that allows
players to pump money into CCP and getting useless items that contain "bragging rights".

Removing the NeX would not change a single thing,
simply because removing it does not remove the underlying idea.

It's actually good that CCP looks for a way to increase their revenue,
because more money means growth. Growth means, more developers will get hired,
which also means that more people will work on EvE/SpaceShips. We "all" made sure this will happen.

I'm not trying to argue against you, i merely don't see your point when you say you want it removed.

I agree, that items with "bragging rights" are nothing that will make people join EvE.
What would have made that happened, was Incarna, as we can see from all those people
who want to see it happen. Including "Ambulation", of course.

It doesn't matter if these people don't fly in space. If they want to run around in Avatars,
so be it, as long as they don't disturb what's going on outside of stations.
That said, if they have positive influence on the game,
offering a greater variety of things to happen,
then i'm all for it !

I, myself, couldn't care less about walking around with my Avatar,
as i simply do not play these kind of games. I never have.
(talking about MMORPGs here, of course)

On the other hand, i would have loved to play that game they showed on fanfest.





If CCP wanted to make moar money they could have offered EON as a digital subscription, that would have made more money, and actually made players happy (instead of making them rage)Roll
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#56 - 2011-12-08 22:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jade Constantine
Gummy Plaude wrote:
Quote:


A couple of days programming time to reallocate the NeX store clothes to the character designer / placed in loyalty point stores ...



It's easier for me to go isk > Nex > stuff than LP > stuff

just saying.



Its easier for me to go Credit Card -> PLEX -> BUY CHARACTER

than to train Jade for skills she doesn't actually have yet. But guess what? Buying your way to everything misses the point of the game.

It would have been just as easy to go CREDIT CARD -> PLEX -> ISK -> BUY TITAN FROM CRIBBA

rather than build our corp Erebus in hostile territory under the noses of our worst enemies - but guess what? it was a hellova lot of fun doing it the hard way and it generated a lot of content for our corp.

The moral of this story is "easy" often = "this game sucks".

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Gummy Plaude
Doomheim
#57 - 2011-12-08 22:52:19 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Gummy Plaude wrote:
Quote:


A couple of days programming time to reallocate the NeX store clothes to the character designer / placed in loyalty point stores ...



It's easier for me to go isk > Nex > stuff than LP > stuff

just saying.



Its easier for me to go Credit Card -> PLEX -> BUY CHARACTER

than to train Jade for skills she doesn't actually have yet. But guess what? Buying your way to everything misses the point of the game.

It would have been just as easy to go CREDIT CARD -> PLEX -> ISK -> BUY TITAN FROM CRIBBA

rather than build our corp Erebus in hostile territory under the noses of our worst enemies - but guess what? it was a hellova lot of fun doing it the hard way and it generated a lot of content for our corp.

The morale of this story is "easy" often = "this game sucks".


What's the difference between earning ISK through in-game mechanics to acquire a NEX item and missioning to earn LP to get the same item?

Since I don't like missioning and I barely do, I just wanted to point to the fact that I for one would rather keep the NEX than to transfer the NEX stuff to the LP one. But hey, We'll always have the market. It wouldn't be such a big deal if they remove the NEX.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#58 - 2011-12-08 23:27:00 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Covert Kitty wrote:
Quote:
Nothing wrong with NEX, use it or do not. For some players it may very well add value to the game experience and for others, they may never even touch it but to not have it at all....that doesn't make sense.

I don't want to get rid of the items that currently NeX is supplying, nor the idea of WiS, or better character customization. I like the idea of all these things. However they should be obtained from gameplay, and like any other item in the game, anyone given enough isk could buy it from other players on the market. It's the NeX itself that I want gone, replaced by gameplay for those items / features.


This.


That monocle came from gameplay. And to accomplish your goal PLEX would need to be removed from the game to boot.

Terrible idea and I'm super happy that CCP doesn't let the inmates run the asylum.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Surge Roth
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-12-09 02:16:28 UTC
Idc if they get rid of it or not. But if they did get rid of the Nex store, they should allow the people who did purchase stuff to keep their stuff and never release it again. I wager that would make some people happy.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#60 - 2011-12-09 02:20:30 UTC
You know removing the nex is like uninstalling a highway you just built.

Expensive project and the tax payers are not going to be happier that you owe them an additional 18 months of development now.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.