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How can EVE retain new players

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2014-08-06 17:40:47 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
PVE is where EVE is lacking with respect to almost every big MMO out there. People rail on WoW for having a ton of Fedex quests, and it certainly does, but they're intermixed with varied and enticing group content (raids, dungeons, etc.). In EVE you can run the same missions over and over and over and over or maybe get into an Incursion group which basically breaks down PVE to a routine.

EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.

EVE has all of that already. In fact, it used to have even more of it, but parts were removed (the mission mixing in particular) because mission-runners didn't want it.

Again, the problem is that crafting these things take an inordinate amount of time for very little gain. WoW pulls it of because it is all WoW does, and it is all that all those devs spend time on. EVE cannot afford that kind of developer dedication to a small subset of the game. And even if there was a room of infinite monkeys to churn out missions, they'd still be dissected and mapped out to the millisecond 15 minutes after release and become trivial.

The best thing you could hope for is some kind of template-based “dynamic” missions that will take all of 30 minutes to map out… but it will all be routine in the end. All PvE is — it's inherent in the concept and inherent in how people play missions.

As for “real story content”, that's what the epic and COSMOS missions (and the occasional live event) are for. There is no “real story” to EVE — you're not saving the world in your own private copy of the universe. The story of EVE is what the players do to the universe, and it's what you take part in every time you log in.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2014-08-06 17:47:50 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
PVE is where EVE is lacking with respect to almost every big MMO out there. People rail on WoW for having a ton of Fedex quests, and it certainly does, but they're intermixed with varied and enticing group content (raids, dungeons, etc.). In EVE you can run the same missions over and over and over and over or maybe get into an Incursion group which basically breaks down PVE to a routine.

EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.



Couldn't have said it better.Big smile
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2014-08-06 17:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallowmere Rorschach
Jur Tissant wrote:
PVE is where EVE is lacking with respect to almost every big MMO out there. People rail on WoW for having a ton of Fedex quests, and it certainly does, but they're intermixed with varied and enticing group content (raids, dungeons, etc.). In EVE you can run the same missions over and over and over and over or maybe get into an Incursion group which basically breaks down PVE to a routine.

EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.

I am not arguing against your point, as I agree with your point to some extent.
That said, it wouldn't take long for group missions to become the exact same thing that Incursions have become. This playerbase is notorious for taking what starts as something fairly challenging (seriously, go back and read some of the QQ about how hard L4s were in the early days), and finding a way to min/max it to death. It's the same thing as raid farming in most MMOs. The first run or five, things might be a bit sluggish, challenges to be overcome, etc. After about your tenth time, it's all 100% routine, and if you do die, it was usually because of a disconnect at a bad time, or just an utter derpout because you spilled hot coffee on your satchel due to laughing at a ridiculous .gif that was linked in fleet.
The only way to make PvE compelling, is to setup a content treadmill, much like other MMOs. The issue there is that you eventually end up doing the exact same thing, just slightly modified. I feel like that would be made even worse by the way that Eve's combat system is set up. You either have to keep on making vast swaths of new ****, or it ends up being the exact same ****...which is what we already have.
I feel like CCP has enough on their plates right now, just trying to fix what is already ******. As such, pushing for a bunch of "raid tier" PvE content probably isn't going to get you anywhere.
For all of this story driven PvE that some seem to want, I'd be interested to know exactly what percentage of players even bother reading mission reports, as opposed to those who just see ISK/LP payout, hit accept, set desto to system, then load up EveSurvival on the way to the mission, if it's one they are unfamiliar with. I have a feeling that the number of people who give a **** about the story in Eve, are even fewer than the number of active titan pilots at any given time.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2014-08-06 17:53:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jur Tissant wrote:
PVE is where EVE is lacking with respect to almost every big MMO out there. People rail on WoW for having a ton of Fedex quests, and it certainly does, but they're intermixed with varied and enticing group content (raids, dungeons, etc.). In EVE you can run the same missions over and over and over and over or maybe get into an Incursion group which basically breaks down PVE to a routine.

EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.

EVE has all of that already. In fact, it used to have even more of it, but parts were removed (the mission mixing in particular) because mission-runners didn't want it.

Again, the problem is that crafting these things take an inordinate amount of time for very little gain. WoW pulls it of because it is all WoW does, and it is all that all those devs spend time on. EVE cannot afford that kind of developer dedication to a small subset of the game. And even if there was a room of infinite monkeys to churn out missions, they'd still be dissected and mapped out to the millisecond 15 minutes after release and become trivial.

The best thing you could hope for is some kind of template-based “dynamic” missions that will take all of 30 minutes to map out… but it will all be routine in the end. All PvE is — it's inherent in the concept and inherent in how people play missions.

As for “real story content”, that's what the epic and COSMOS missions (and the occasional live event) are for. There is no “real story” to EVE — you're not saving the world in your own private copy of the universe. The story of EVE is what the players do to the universe, and it's what you take part in every time you log in.



Perhaps, just perhaps, thats the problem
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2014-08-06 17:54:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jur Tissant wrote:
PVE is where EVE is lacking with respect to almost every big MMO out there. People rail on WoW for having a ton of Fedex quests, and it certainly does, but they're intermixed with varied and enticing group content (raids, dungeons, etc.). In EVE you can run the same missions over and over and over and over or maybe get into an Incursion group which basically breaks down PVE to a routine.

EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.

EVE has all of that already. In fact, it used to have even more of it, but parts were removed (the mission mixing in particular) because mission-runners didn't want it.

Again, the problem is that crafting these things take an inordinate amount of time for very little gain. WoW pulls it of because it is all WoW does, and it is all that all those devs spend time on. EVE cannot afford that kind of developer dedication to a small subset of the game. And even if there was a room of infinite monkeys to churn out missions, they'd still be dissected and mapped out to the millisecond 15 minutes after release and become trivial.

The best thing you could hope for is some kind of template-based “dynamic” missions that will take all of 30 minutes to map out… but it will all be routine in the end. All PvE is — it's inherent in the concept and inherent in how people play missions.

As for “real story content”, that's what the epic and COSMOS missions (and the occasional live event) are for. There is no “real story” to EVE — you're not saving the world in your own private copy of the universe. The story of EVE is what the players do to the universe, and it's what you take part in every time you log in.



Your wrong. I did gallente fed missions. I read what they wanted and why. I remember quite a few of the story lines. They were, and still are dry. Yes some people just want to grind. And the percentage you talk about is wrong too. I think they woud make monumental gains if they added cinematics or a driven story line. Yes we write our path. If you don't like the cinematics turn them off "click". I'm not saying make eve wow- just good god do something. Even if people just grind sites for isk who cares, it's still there if you want it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#126 - 2014-08-06 18:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Your wrong.
In what way?

Quote:
I did gallente fed missions. I read what they wanted and why. I remember quite a few of the story lines. They were, and still are dry.
That's because there is no real story behind them. They're just excuses for fulfilling one of the five mission templates. Adding more flash to that excuse doesn't give it a story — it just makes the excuse flashier, and the template remains the same. Likewise, making the template flashier doesn't give it a story either — it just makes it a flasher template, with the same flat and dry excuse behind it.

Quote:
I think they woud make monumental gains if they added cinematics or a driven story line.
…the first time. The next time you run them, they'd be as trivial as anything and the cinematics would be a waste of your time. Oh, and let's not forget the insane waste of effort (and HD space) cinematics would mean in and of themselves. Even then, there would be no “real story content” because at its core, EVE has no story. It has some lore in the books and chronicles, and a player narrative in the meta-game. PvE never affects either for the simple reason that it can't. You would have to have personal instancing and sharding and all that horrible junk to make your mission have any impact whatsoever to the story of EVE.

It's not a simple matter of “just add this” — it's a matter of what you're describing being fundamentally incompatible with how the game works. If you want a story-driven game experience, you should play a story-driven (or story-driving) game. EVE is not that. By virtue of being a non-instanced, non-sharded, multiplayer sandbox, it never can be. All it can do is let players create stories — none of which will ever have anything to do with PvE.

Quote:
And the percentage you talk about is wrong too
I'm not talking about any percentages. Who are you actually responding to?

Oh, and as related to the actual topic: wasting all those dev resources and all that time and all that effort and all that drive space on giving older players a faint simulacrum of an entirely different game type…? It will do nothing for the new players and will not help with their retention because it still fundamentally fails to do what it needs to do: prepare new players for the game of EVE and have them hook into the (player-driven) universe around them. If anything, it would hurt them more than help them since it would give them even less reason and opportunity to encounter the factors that make people stick around.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#127 - 2014-08-06 18:08:45 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jur Tissant wrote:
PVE is where EVE is lacking with respect to almost every big MMO out there. People rail on WoW for having a ton of Fedex quests, and it certainly does, but they're intermixed with varied and enticing group content (raids, dungeons, etc.). In EVE you can run the same missions over and over and over and over or maybe get into an Incursion group which basically breaks down PVE to a routine.

EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.

EVE has all of that already. In fact, it used to have even more of it, but parts were removed (the mission mixing in particular) because mission-runners didn't want it.

Again, the problem is that crafting these things take an inordinate amount of time for very little gain. WoW pulls it of because it is all WoW does, and it is all that all those devs spend time on. EVE cannot afford that kind of developer dedication to a small subset of the game. And even if there was a room of infinite monkeys to churn out missions, they'd still be dissected and mapped out to the millisecond 15 minutes after release and become trivial.

The best thing you could hope for is some kind of template-based “dynamic” missions that will take all of 30 minutes to map out… but it will all be routine in the end. All PvE is — it's inherent in the concept and inherent in how people play missions.

As for “real story content”, that's what the epic and COSMOS missions (and the occasional live event) are for. There is no “real story” to EVE — you're not saving the world in your own private copy of the universe. The story of EVE is what the players do to the universe, and it's what you take part in every time you log in.



Your wrong. I did gallente fed missions. I read what they wanted and why. I remember quite a few of the story lines. They were, and still are dry. Yes some people just want to grind. And the percentage you talk about is wrong too. I think they woud make monumental gains if they added cinematics or a driven story line. Yes we write our path. If you don't like the cinematics turn them off "click". I'm not saying make eve wow- just good god do something. Even if people just grind sites for isk who cares, it's still there if you want it.


You could have typed "Gurgle Gurgle Gurgle" and ti would have made as much sense as what you did type.

The mistake you are making is think that YOUR personal wants/needs are everyone elses as well. It's not the case.

You seem to need that 'movie' like experience, but people who want a game like EVE tend to be the sort of folk who don't care about that. look at all the people who play EVE zoomed all the way out, on minimum graphics with the sound off.

IMO you will probably be one of those folks that will be happier with Elite:Dangerous and Star Citizen with it's pretty visuals and action, because EVe doesn't seem to be doing it for you.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2014-08-06 18:14:10 UTC
Animated mission screen in epic arc that takes you the width an breadth of your faction space with voice comms from faction personnel when your out in space, doing trade runs/mining/industry/ an dogfights with faction npc via pirates or invading forces all included in the epic faction arc culminating in a all out fleet battle with the factions pirate rats.

Sounds epic but as u said tippia, to much work they would rather stick to the same thing they been doing for last 10 years, heck you could make that the NPE an have the end battle against other new players from the other factions with some npc thrown in, have it stretch oout for weeks instead of a couple of hours, have the mission givers tell you "pilot you need to get stronger we recommend you train blah blah for this next push"

CCP needs a imagination as much as us players an they seem to have none left either
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#129 - 2014-08-06 18:19:19 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:
Animated mission screen in epic arc that takes you the width an breadth of your faction space with voice comms from faction personnel when your out in space, doing trade runs/mining/industry/ an dogfights with faction npc via pirates or invading forces all included in the epic faction arc culminating in a all out fleet battle with the factions pirate rats.
How would this help new players and make them stay in the game?

Quote:
Sounds epic but as u said tippia, to much work they would rather stick to the same thing they been doing for last 10 years
It's not just that. It's also the equally important question “how would it help?” Is the effort of doing that and maintaining it for every change made to the game worth the effect it will have on new player retention?
Yokai Mitsuhide
Doomheim
#130 - 2014-08-06 18:19:42 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Eve can retain players by destroying NPC corps. I dropped corp to do some hauling during wartime and there are so many whiny bitches in there advising and encouraging people to not join corps. If thats some of the first things newbies see and maybe join 1 bad corp then they'll just stay there being bored.



Guy complains about NPC corps right after dropping into one to avoid a war dec. Good stuff.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2014-08-06 18:22:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
[quote=RAIN Arthie]Your wrong.
In what way?

Your not CCP and cannot make that assesment


5 missions templates-- are lame

monumental gains- lore is part of story. it's lacking fu*king lore to make something worth persuing. No driving force to keep playing.


It seems you don't want to see changes because your comfortable with the same dry sh*t
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#132 - 2014-08-06 18:25:02 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:
Animated mission screen in epic arc that takes you the width an breadth of your faction space with voice comms from faction personnel when your out in space, doing trade runs/mining/industry/ an dogfights with faction npc via pirates or invading forces all included in the epic faction arc culminating in a all out fleet battle with the factions pirate rats.

Sounds epic but as u said tippia, to much work they would rather stick to the same thing they been doing for last 10 years, heck you could make that the NPE an have the end battle against other new players from the other factions with some npc thrown in, have it stretch oout for weeks instead of a couple of hours, have the mission givers tell you "pilot you need to get stronger we recommend you train blah blah for this next push"

CCP needs a imagination as much as us players an they seem to have none left either


CCP doesn't need imaginations, players in a player driven game need imagination. The reason all this PVE stuff is a bad idea (other than being a bad investment of time as Tippia points out) is that EVE isn't a PVE game, it's not a "sit down and enjoy the show" type game like most games are. At the end of the day, Themeparks games are a movie that you can pretend you are in and having an impact in.

EVE is a "MAKE A STORY FOR YOURSELF" game, all of the 'content' in EVE isn't really content, it's backdrops and props and lighting, a stage for you to put on a show for yourself and your friends. PVE is a mechanisim with which to gather the resources needed to fund the show (i realize this every time someone comes into my mission trying to get me to aggress, my not doing so is controlling my 'story' while thwarting his).

At the end of the day, people complaining about EVE's pve (and lack of new player retention) are really just lamenting the fact that EVE isn't the 'right' kind of game for their tastes. EVE's PVE is fine, especially if you like to tackle it in creative ways (like the lvl 3 missions I'm doing right now with a Machariel while raking in storyline loot super fast, props to Stoicfaux for being a real sandbox pve king).
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#133 - 2014-08-06 18:27:09 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
[quote=RAIN Arthie]Your wrong.
In what way?

Your not CCP and cannot make that assesment


5 missions templates-- are lame

monumental gains- lore is part of story. it's lacking fu*king lore to make something worth persuing. No driving force to keep playing.


It seems you don't want to see changes because your comfortable with the same dry sh*t



If it's "dry" to you, why do it, why not do something fun instead?

i just finished another run of the two pirate epic arcs last week (lost 3 dramiels doing them, but was fun). Those aren't 'dry' and only require frig sized ships.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2014-08-06 18:30:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
Animated mission screen in epic arc that takes you the width an breadth of your faction space with voice comms from faction personnel when your out in space, doing trade runs/mining/industry/ an dogfights with faction npc via pirates or invading forces all included in the epic faction arc culminating in a all out fleet battle with the factions pirate rats.

Sounds epic but as u said tippia, to much work they would rather stick to the same thing they been doing for last 10 years, heck you could make that the NPE an have the end battle against other new players from the other factions with some npc thrown in, have it stretch oout for weeks instead of a couple of hours, have the mission givers tell you "pilot you need to get stronger we recommend you train blah blah for this next push"

CCP needs a imagination as much as us players an they seem to have none left either


CCP doesn't need imaginations, players in a player driven game need imagination. The reason all this PVE stuff is a bad idea (other than being a bad investment of time as Tippia points out) is that EVE isn't a PVE game, it's not a "sit down and enjoy the show" type game like most games are. At the end of the day, Themeparks games are a movie that you can pretend you are in and having an impact in.

EVE is a "MAKE A STORY FOR YOURSELF" game, all of the 'content' in EVE isn't really content, it's backdrops and props and lighting, a stage for you to put on a show for yourself and your friends. PVE is a mechanisim with which to gather the resources needed to fund the show (i realize this every time someone comes into my mission trying to get me to aggress, my not doing so is controlling my 'story' while thwarting his).

At the end of the day, people complaining about EVE's pve (and lack of new player retention) are really just lamenting the fact that EVE isn't the 'right' kind of game for their tastes. EVE's PVE is fine, especially if you like to tackle it in creative ways (like the lvl 3 missions I'm doing right now with a Machariel while raking in storyline loot super fast, props to Stoicfaux for being a real sandbox pve king).



That is very small thinking. Why not offer all the features? In game story while you write your story. Adding story to the game DOES NOT take away from pvp.
Kharaxus
Eve Academy Corporation
#135 - 2014-08-06 18:33:02 UTC
Jur Tissant wrote:
EVE needs to provide mission chains and some real story content. We also need a real incentive to run missions as a group - providing missions geared towards groups, with higher rewards, would be a good start.


Well one such mission would be a group of 10-15 people with varying skills, and experience setting up a POS in null sec. Or in a WH. All the logistics and economical data collected prior. Just one example.

FW helps players gain and learn valuable experience, because people are working together to flip systems (ihub bashing = 15-20 bombers with torpedos last time I was there).

So there's 3 missions right there, dependent upon player created content. The rewards can be millions to billions of ISK or other items as they are looted.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2014-08-06 18:35:22 UTC
Kharaxus wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
A huge PVE overhaul, it be that simple


PVE requires too much more people focusing on content created, rather than player created content. Might as well be playing Freelancer.


I loved freelancer tbh m8, still load it up now n then tbh :) just like i love Homeworld 1 n 2 an load them up, sins of a solar empire (good i can spend days in that)

They all got there places just like Eve, the question was just how to retain new players, for me the answer is what have they not done, and for me that is pve

PVE doesnt need to conjure pictures of WoW or any other theme park mmo, it could be the simplest thing of like freelancer, following a npc through a epic arc with cinematic mission screen but most importantly voice comms with the npc so it feels alive, an in that epic arc crossing bridges with other faction newbies doing there NPE and dogfighting it out between the newbs an the npc.

Yes it would take work how much i dont know, they could make a new bit of space an dedicate it to the NPE away from the main universe an in it introduce the newbs to everything eve has to offer with like i said missions where the pvp can be scripted in a way that the devs will show us newbs what eve will be like.

I dont know the answers, you dont, CCP doesnt, all all these are is ideas/thoughts/suggestions nothing more. all wee do know is for the last 10 year what they have tried has not worked, some stay most leave if i read it all right, trying something with the NPE that is "outwith" everything else and doesnt intrude on the actual universe might be a better start to understanding how to keep the ppl that come, instead of just going right there the universe go at it
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#137 - 2014-08-06 18:39:04 UTC
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Bel Tika wrote:
Animated mission screen in epic arc that takes you the width an breadth of your faction space with voice comms from faction personnel when your out in space, doing trade runs/mining/industry/ an dogfights with faction npc via pirates or invading forces all included in the epic faction arc culminating in a all out fleet battle with the factions pirate rats.

Sounds epic but as u said tippia, to much work they would rather stick to the same thing they been doing for last 10 years, heck you could make that the NPE an have the end battle against other new players from the other factions with some npc thrown in, have it stretch oout for weeks instead of a couple of hours, have the mission givers tell you "pilot you need to get stronger we recommend you train blah blah for this next push"

CCP needs a imagination as much as us players an they seem to have none left either


CCP doesn't need imaginations, players in a player driven game need imagination. The reason all this PVE stuff is a bad idea (other than being a bad investment of time as Tippia points out) is that EVE isn't a PVE game, it's not a "sit down and enjoy the show" type game like most games are. At the end of the day, Themeparks games are a movie that you can pretend you are in and having an impact in.

EVE is a "MAKE A STORY FOR YOURSELF" game, all of the 'content' in EVE isn't really content, it's backdrops and props and lighting, a stage for you to put on a show for yourself and your friends. PVE is a mechanisim with which to gather the resources needed to fund the show (i realize this every time someone comes into my mission trying to get me to aggress, my not doing so is controlling my 'story' while thwarting his).

At the end of the day, people complaining about EVE's pve (and lack of new player retention) are really just lamenting the fact that EVE isn't the 'right' kind of game for their tastes. EVE's PVE is fine, especially if you like to tackle it in creative ways (like the lvl 3 missions I'm doing right now with a Machariel while raking in storyline loot super fast, props to Stoicfaux for being a real sandbox pve king).



That is very small thinking. Why not offer all the features? In game story while you write your story. Adding story to the game DOES NOT take away from pvp.


Yes it does, if someone is making a story for you, why do you need to make one?

Needing game DEVS to do your thinking for you just isn't what EVE is. CCP understands that the stories we make (like for example, the "Xurien's playground of forbidden fruit" or the "Rise and Fall of Erotica1") are much more interesting than some made up crap about space age slave traders oppressing space age brown people.

Make your own story if you are bored.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#138 - 2014-08-06 18:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
RAIN Arthie wrote:
Your not CCP and cannot make that assesment
Ok. You need to start being far more specific in your answers because you're making little sense.

What assessment?

Quote:
5 missions templates-- are lame
monumental gains- lore is part of story. it's lacking fu*king lore to make something worth persuing. No driving force to keep playing.
Lore is already part of the excuses. The thing you keep missing is that there can never be a story to missions because that would require them to alter the universe, and there is no way to accommodate that in a game such as EVE. At the end of your mission, the universe cannot be any different than when you started because then it would be a different universe than the one everyone else lives in.

At best, player actions can be baked into the lore or some lore switch-over can be run as a live event, but missions simply can't drive story because it is not theirs to drive.

Quote:
It seems you don't want to see changes because your comfortable with the same dry sh*t
It seems you have not read or understood a single thing I write and instead make up your own story about what's happening in this discussion…

…incidentally, in a curious parallel, that is not how discussions work either.

Quote:
Why not offer all the features?
Because they can't be incorporated in a non-instanced, non-sharded, single-server, massive multiplayer sandbox. You're asking for instanced single-player themepark features — they are inherently incompatible.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#139 - 2014-08-06 18:46:21 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:


They all got there places just like Eve, the question was just how to retain new players, for me the answer is what have they not done, and for me that is pve


What is never asked during these "eve needs new players" threads is if the players being retained are the right kind of player.

Lots of people who try EVE and don't like it are people who NEED the kinds of things mainstream/non-EVE like games offer (like hand holding, a clear cut 'story' to be a part of, protection from the predations of other players etc etc etc).

If you have to gerrymander a niche game so much to get new players to stay, why did they make a niche game to begin with?

CCp shouldn't worry about retaining new players (those new players are making a smart choice), if anything at all it should change it's outreach efforts away from traditional (instant gratification needing) gamers and Traditional (themepark loving) MMO players and do some 'outside the box' marketing to groups of people who would like a game like this. Because at the end of the day it's not the game, it's the gamers that need re-thinking.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#140 - 2014-08-06 18:47:03 UTC
Bel Tika wrote:
it could be the simplest thing of like freelancer, following a npc through a epic arc with cinematic mission screen but most importantly voice comms with the npc so it feels alive, an in that epic arc crossing bridges with other faction newbies doing there NPE and dogfighting it out between the newbs an the npc.
That is not a simple thing.
And again, how does this help or retain new players?

Oh, and what you describe already exists, by the way. It's called “making your own story rather than rely on missions”, and unlike faked interaction with NPCs (which will fool no-one and which will not teach them anything about… anything, really), it actually does get new players hooked.