EVE General Discussion

Waiting in a chat room in my Logi clone for me takes effort, effort as I have to advertise and pay attention to possible invites, more effort then Anom ratting at least.
So you're telling us null sec Anoms are more risky then Incursions?

Either way my point which you clearly missed (Obvious troll is obvious) is that null vs high sec doesn't really count here as there clearly isn't more risk in null sec, and that the play style of null sec doesn't suit everyone, so should they make less because of it?

However I do agree that the isk gain in Incursions is a bit high.

If you're talking about the NC, then I pretty much know why they didn't survive, yes.

What's your theory?

Please tell me how we're supposed to run incursions that appear in hostile space.

PVP doesnt always have to be about blowing each other up!

Right so the incursions in sov space are going to be run by the people who own sov there in relative safety. That is relative to npc null sec or low sec.

If we are looking at risk versus reward low sec and npc null sec should pay more than sov null sec. Certainly the low sec incursions should not pay worse than null sec. Would you agree?

Anyone who thinks earning 80m an hour from incursions is game breaking needs to l2p.

Incursions is already risky (for pve). It takes a good bit of overhead time (flying to the system, organizing groups, and so on). And the final result is only marginally better than running level 4s or ratting, and significantly lower than you can earn in a lot of other ways. The only thing imbalanced about incurions is that it doesn't scale -- a low SP char earns as much as a skilled one. This means its much better than a lot of unskilled or uninvested chars could make before. But Incursions adds something eve didn't have before. It adds group raids, a reason for bears to form a community and play together. And that's a good thing.

Sincerely,
A guy who stopped running Incursions because they weren't profitable enough

Not possible, especially when you factor in travel time and LP research cost and the like.

Thats what a guy who was trying to defend the high sec incursions was saying. I don't think he would exagerate his income when he was trying to argue they shouldn't be nerfed.

The lp was calculated at a pretty easy to get 2.5k per lp. When you have the pick of all the lp stores as well as unique items in the concord store its pretty easy to get. I would imagine some people through research etc could get more than that for the lp.

As far as travel time. I see incursions in allot of the same places over and over. But whatever, how long does it take to hit autopilot?

If not autopilot and you are going to do the jumps yourself its just a matter of 15 minutes or so and then you run them in the same constellation right?

With Incursions, a dozen pilots at a time can fly out in not terribly impressive fleets with mediocre skills, both skill points and their personal capabilities, and shoot a bunch of Sansha ships. These pilots are then given loads of cash at a rate that rivals any other profession and yet, they have yet to do a single thing that makes the galaxy better.

And this to me is the most damning issue about Incursions; you make so much money and provide nothing for anyone but yourself. All of the money you make is put straight into your wallet. In every other profession, much, if not all, of the money you make is because you obtain something of value to some other player who pays you for those items you've gathered. There are some ISK faucets with other PvE activities, bounties from pirates, rewards from Missions, Sleeper components, Overseer Personal Effects, but it isn't all from pure freshly printed ISK just for you. With everything else you're going to make money because you provide an item like salvage that will be used in rig production, modules to be sold on the market or broken down into materials for production of ships or other modules, deadspace items to be sold through contracts, or ships and faction items from LP rewards.

Another issue to me is the fact that you are in hisec. There's nothing wrong with living in hisec, it's a perfectly acceptable place to live

I live in a wormhole normally, but I've also been running Incursions more recently, and I have to say that it's some of the stupidly easy money I've ever made. Complaining about how it takes time and preparation to get a fleet ready is pretty ridiculous because doing anything properly in EVE takes time and preparation. First time I went to run Incursions I went out on my own and got picked up fine by a fleet in 20 mins. I spend an hour at least prepping to do anything in a womrhole, more if there is someone else I have to deal with or avoid and my range of "vision" is severely limited compared to K space. If you're in 0.0 and you want to farm rats, you have to prune the belts properly for several hours, or if you're looking for a Sanctum to run you have to go around scanning each system. Sure it's easier if you've built up the system you're living in, but that's also a result of a hefty investment paid for by the alliance and they just nerfed those sanctums. If you want to do manufacturing, well then you're going to first gather all the materials you need, find a place that you can produce them, be it a station with open build slots or setting up and fueling your own tower, and then haul your goods around to be sold. This is all after you analyze the market to find a suitably profitable item and place to sell what you've been making and this is using a large, organic market place meaning you might have to reassess your decisions because the market has changed.

Then there's the little risk to Incursions in HiSec. All you have to do is make sure that you can absorb the predictable damage from the Sansha ships. Sure, it's slightly harder than mission NPC's because they're using Sleeper AI subroutines, but that just means you make your fleet slightly dynamic. The NPC's still follow very specific, and easy to predict patterns, especially since the spawns are exactly the same every time. All of this while you're under the protection of CONCORD who will make sure no one with an actual brain interferes with what you do.

My solution proposals for those of you that didn't read why I feel Incursions are a joke:

Solution A(Rewards)
Make the rewards for Incursions all or mostly all from LP. This to me would solve the issue of just flat out printing ISK to the Incursion runners. It would make the reward more in line with most other professions, save rat farming in 0.0 (this should be changed too I think, though that would be a diffeent issue).

Solution B(Risk)
Make it possible to shoot other players in any system undergoing Incursions. Whatever the system is, it's being invaded by Sansha, yet somehow in HiSec CONCORD is still able to function. Perhaps, there would still be a security hit for performing agressive actions, but it would still increase the risk of the situation to be more comparable to the reward.

tl;dr
There's nothing wrong with making a profit in EVE and there's nothing wrong with making a huge profit. but EVE shouldn't encourage making lots of money without lots of thinking. It is not a sign of higher intelligence or cleverness that someone or a group of people can run Incursions. Incursions should be made more complicated to maintain it's level of reward.

There is always the risk if in pug that some idiot (mostly Logi) doesn't pay attention causing your ship to go pop, and it's quite easily achieved.
I haven't been in to many Incursion fleets but most where small, and if one of the Logies would lose focus it would go bad real quick.