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How can EVE retain new players

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Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#81 - 2014-08-06 13:26:08 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
I don't know what the hell you just expatiated, but it has nothing to do with the fact that anyone that's taken the time to skill for a Golem is NOT a newbie. Anyone that has gotten into a Golem without learning how to fly and fit it effectively is creating their own problems.


My English might not be perfect but I doubt it's so messed up you couldn't understand what I was writing about.
But that's ok, CCP wallet and successful business is none of my concern so I won't even pretend to care about new players retention.

Invalid signature format
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2014-08-06 13:31:15 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
Sentamon wrote:

CCP needs to find a way to separate new players for whom ISK is a issue from old players who have insane amounts of disposable ISK and power at their beck and call.


So where do the players like myself who have been around a while but have neither swimming pools full of iSK nor insane power over thousands of minions end up in that scheme?

Xuixien wrote:

Except WoW has no appreciable death penalty.


When I told my wife that Eve will let you kill people and take their stuff, she almost decided to try it. Smile But she's not a fan of spaceships. Straight

Prince Kobol wrote:
I also believe they are going to struggle to retain existing members soon.

I have that feeling myself, if they don't make some serious changes.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#83 - 2014-08-06 13:33:35 UTC
Eve can retain players by destroying NPC corps. I dropped corp to do some hauling during wartime and there are so many whiny bitches in there advising and encouraging people to not join corps. If thats some of the first things newbies see and maybe join 1 bad corp then they'll just stay there being bored.

De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2014-08-06 13:39:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
I'm guessing the much wanted "industry in nullsec" changes haven't brought the waves of people that were going to live there

By the looks of things, it very definitely has.

Would you mind elaborating on this? I'd like to see the stats, but I have no idea what to even look for.


I still think we should have taken over Providence & free-ported the region. Pubs will flock to Providence as time goes on & we deserve a slice of the tax pie that CVA is too nice to exploit.


The problem then becomes that the kind of people attracted to that sort of region are the sort of people you'd have to babysit because they don't really want to PvP themselves.

Goonswarm shepherd of the lost souls of New Eden does have an interesting kind of ring to it though.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#85 - 2014-08-06 13:40:26 UTC
Icarus Able wrote:
Eve can retain players by destroying NPC corps. I dropped corp to do some hauling during wartime and there are so many whiny bitches in there advising and encouraging people to not join corps. If thats some of the first things newbies see and maybe join 1 bad corp then they'll just stay there being bored.



I dropped a character out of corp to an npc corp (Imperial Shipment) because I was considering selling it (i didn't). I was SHOCKED to read corp chat lol, it seem to me that membership in an NPC corp should come with a few prescription for anti-depressant meds lol, because I've never seen such naysaying before.

Dropped another toon out of corp to move it to an indy corp belonging to a buddy of mine and caught an hour long glimpse of Brutor Tribe corp chat, same deal, it was horrible.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-08-06 13:44:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
Eve can retain players by destroying NPC corps. I dropped corp to do some hauling during wartime and there are so many whiny bitches in there advising and encouraging people to not join corps. If thats some of the first things newbies see and maybe join 1 bad corp then they'll just stay there being bored.



I dropped a character out of corp to an npc corp (Imperial Shipment) because I was considering selling it (i didn't). I was SHOCKED to read corp chat lol, it seem to me that membership in an NPC corp should come with a few prescription for anti-depressant meds lol, because I've never seen such naysaying before.

Dropped another toon out of corp to move it to an indy corp belonging to a buddy of mine and caught an hour long glimpse of Brutor Tribe corp chat, same deal, it was horrible.


I have an alt in an NPC corp for highsec market purchasing, and when I'm on that alt I rarely, if ever bother to check corp chat when it blinks. Everytime I do, I feel like I should start cutting myself to relieve the depression.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Xtreem
Knockaround Guys Inc.
#87 - 2014-08-06 13:46:04 UTC
I don't want to comment on the vastness of this topic, simply there are things that will help new players that will annoy the old and the other way round, there are many ways you can't compare eve and wow, just 2 different types of MMORPG but wow has managed to appeal to a greater market as warcraft as a concept has alot of other followers.

The one thing i would agree with is the tutorial for eve is pretty bad, alot better than it was in 03 but not by enough, it should be fully comprehensive and cover alot of topics have start missions, hell i would be happy for the tutorial to happen in a special wormhole or system that they leave as the ending of their tutorial so they can, if they choose, spend time getting to know core concepts rather than dropping into the deep end.

The one thing i would add rather than just agree with is: marketing, if CCP spend the money on adverts, tv, film with their trailers etc that they piled into DUST and Vampires I suspect there would have been a huge influx of new players, WoW had such a huge add campaign with celebs and well known characters and it worked, i bet the ads more than paid for themselves.
Need to spend a penny to make a pound!
I work in IT and feel i still could do a better job of marketing, drop me a line CCP :)
Dirk Axelrod
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2014-08-06 13:47:50 UTC
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.

Add in that so many ppl are out to cheat you/ scam you and it makes the community seem off putting. The whole community seems hostile at times as well, like i'm playing LoL.

Another thing that has turned my friends off from playing is that it takes so long to accomplish what you want to do because of the whole SP thing. For instance in WoW, I can lvl from 1 - 90 in a a week, chug some mountain dew and grind. In a few weeks and w/ some moderate luck I'd be geared enough to do entry level raids. In eve there isn't really a way around the SP mountain, at least I haven't found one. For example: when I started playing I thought "wow covert ops looks fun I want to try that," so I set up a skill plan and then noticed the time: I wouldn't even be able to enter the ship for another month, and add on another few weeks to fly it at a decent level. I'm about halfway there now, but sometimes when I get home from work, I don't really have a desire to log in, not because I'm bored but rather because right now at my skill levels and wallet amount, I gain just as much from NOT logging on as I do from logging in. I'm not saying the SP system is bad, its just off putting to new players. Only noobs with tons of patience or noobs who keep there subs active only to train skills will be sticking around, and I personally feel that's not a high percentage.


Sorry for rambling, just my 2c
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#89 - 2014-08-06 13:51:47 UTC
Xtreem wrote:
WoW had such a huge add campaign with celebs and well known characters and it worked, i bet the ads more than paid for themselves.


CCP should have done a TV ad with Samuel L. Jackson. Something to do with snakes on a Crane maybe.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#90 - 2014-08-06 13:53:00 UTC
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.

Add in that so many ppl are out to cheat you/ scam you and it makes the community seem off putting. The whole community seems hostile at times as well, like i'm playing LoL.

Another thing that has turned my friends off from playing is that it takes so long to accomplish what you want to do because of the whole SP thing. For instance in WoW, I can lvl from 1 - 90 in a a week, chug some mountain dew and grind. In a few weeks and w/ some moderate luck I'd be geared enough to do entry level raids. In eve there isn't really a way around the SP mountain, at least I haven't found one. For example: when I started playing I thought "wow covert ops looks fun I want to try that," so I set up a skill plan and then noticed the time: I wouldn't even be able to enter the ship for another month, and add on another few weeks to fly it at a decent level. I'm about halfway there now, but sometimes when I get home from work, I don't really have a desire to log in, not because I'm bored but rather because right now at my skill levels and wallet amount, I gain just as much from NOT logging on as I do from logging in. I'm not saying the SP system is bad, its just off putting to new players. Only noobs with tons of patience or noobs who keep there subs active only to train skills will be sticking around, and I personally feel that's not a high percentage.


Sorry for rambling, just my 2c



You're doing EVE wrong.

EVE is not about getting to "endgame" content (not that there is an "endgame" in a sandbox) in a week -- it's about doing what you can with what you have.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Velicitia
XS Tech
#91 - 2014-08-06 13:54:55 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Xtreem wrote:
WoW had such a huge add campaign with celebs and well known characters and it worked, i bet the ads more than paid for themselves.


CCP should have done a TV ad with Samuel L. Jackson. Something to do with snakes on a Crane maybe.



Could be interesting, but I'm not sure how well that velocity bonus will really help you.Blink

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#92 - 2014-08-06 13:56:13 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Xtreem wrote:
WoW had such a huge add campaign with celebs and well known characters and it worked, i bet the ads more than paid for themselves.


CCP should have done a TV ad with Samuel L. Jackson. Something to do with snakes on a Crane maybe.


Morgan Freeman trumps everything and everyone.
C'mon, he's God telling stories about black holes!

Invalid signature format
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#93 - 2014-08-06 14:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.


this is the problem with many gamers: They are trying to escape something.

Well, people who have trouble dealing with real life are going to suck at EVE (a thinking gamer's game) as well. Most of the people I play EVE with are professionals in their fields who actually like their lives and see EVE as an enhancement of their lives/time.

So right there we see a major reason why EVE just isn't ever going to be real popular, it forces thinking rather than giving a player some rote/automatic reflex based thing to do. Lots of games are distractions and outlets for pent up rage (which is why I think 1st person shooter games are so popular).

EVE is more like a hobby, like this activity is (it's fun as hell, but it's just like EVE, pour man-hour after man-hour into something that has a combat life span measured in seconds lol).

Just because something is a 'game', that doesn't mean it's like other games.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2014-08-06 14:05:54 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.


this is the problem with many gamers: They are trying to escape something.

Well, people who have trouble dealing with real life are going to suck at EVE (a thinking gamer's game) as well. Most of the people I play EVE with are professionals in their fields who actually like their lives and see EVE as an enhancement of their lives/time.

So right there we see a major reason why EVE just isn't ever going to be real popular, it forces thinking rather than giving a player some rote/automatic reflex based thing to do. Lots of games are distractions and outlets for pent up rage (which is why I think 1st person shooter games are so popular).

EVE is more like a hobby, like this activity is (it's fun as hell, but it's just like EVE, pour man-hour after man-hour into something that has a combat life span measured in seconds lol).

Just because something is a 'game', that doesn't mean it's like other games.


To be fair, I have always seen Eve more as a hobby than a game.

Edit: Also HOLY HELL! I just watched your video. DO WANT!

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#95 - 2014-08-06 14:07:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.

Add in that so many ppl are out to cheat you/ scam you and it makes the community seem off putting. The whole community seems hostile at times as well, like i'm playing LoL.

Another thing that has turned my friends off from playing is that it takes so long to accomplish what you want to do because of the whole SP thing. For instance in WoW, I can lvl from 1 - 90 in a a week, chug some mountain dew and grind. In a few weeks and w/ some moderate luck I'd be geared enough to do entry level raids. In eve there isn't really a way around the SP mountain, at least I haven't found one. For example: when I started playing I thought "wow covert ops looks fun I want to try that," so I set up a skill plan and then noticed the time: I wouldn't even be able to enter the ship for another month, and add on another few weeks to fly it at a decent level. I'm about halfway there now, but sometimes when I get home from work, I don't really have a desire to log in, not because I'm bored but rather because right now at my skill levels and wallet amount, I gain just as much from NOT logging on as I do from logging in. I'm not saying the SP system is bad, its just off putting to new players. Only noobs with tons of patience or noobs who keep there subs active only to train skills will be sticking around, and I personally feel that's not a high percentage.


Sorry for rambling, just my 2c

Got A Weak WillieBlink
Passive sp is one of the finer points that makes eve Much better than most games out there,
the glorious positive of this is that i prevents Smelly basement dwelling teens from power-grinding sp for 48 hour stretches.
this is good because adults (which is most of us) tend to have Jobs and Kids and other obligations .
be patient with the skill cue and learn how to eve before you complain about how it is.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2014-08-06 14:11:00 UTC
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
Another thing that has turned my friends off from playing is that it takes so long to accomplish what you want to do because of the whole SP thing. For instance in WoW, I can lvl from 1 - 90 in a a week, chug some mountain dew and grind. In a few weeks and w/ some moderate luck I'd be geared enough to do entry level raids. In eve there isn't really a way around the SP mountain, at least I haven't found one.
There is one:

Step 1: forget any kind of notion you have about “must have X before doing Y”.
Step 2: there is no step 2.
Step 3: …actually, now that you mention it, go back and find whomever it was that tricked you into believing anything as silly as “you must have X before doing Y” and give him two sharp kicks to the balls. It's far more gracious and kind a gift than he deserves, but every once in a while, you just have to be generous to the idiots less fortunate around you.

There is no SP mountain — there's just a lovely serpentine road with a wonderful view of the scenery. If you start travelling down (or is it up?) that road, you'll encounter all kinds of wonderful sights and odd twists and turns and curious trails leading off the beaten path that, once you end up… wherever you end up, you'll be carrying a crate of chickens, a quart of rum, a lute, five crates of assorted engine parts for a 1930s Bentley, and an antique gentleman's gardening cane. None of which you ever imagined you'd need; half of which you still aren't sure why or how you got them; some of which you can probably use to impress that nice girl down the road. Wait, wasn't there some talk of a mountain top you had to get to? Meh. Who cares. Now chase that rabbit!

Quote:
I'm bored but rather because right now at my skill levels and wallet amount, I gain just as much from NOT logging on as I do from logging in.
This is patently untrue. While not logged in, you are not gaining new connections; new strategies and tricks of the trade; new experience from trial and error; or any of the myriad of things you need to really succeed at whatever you will end up doing in the future. The only thing you're gaining at equal pace is SP and (if you're really clever) ISK, neither of which are particularly important on the scale of things.
Tam Arai
Mi Pen Rai
#97 - 2014-08-06 14:13:32 UTC
why don't they make the noob corps actual corps with a ceo etc? the ceo (and leadership team) could be a ccp/ isd/ volunteer etc but they would actually lead the corp, advise noobs, organise frig roams, provide miner boosts etc

Noobs could be provided with useful links from the get go- eve survival, uni wiki, iph, evemon etc so those with inquisitive minds can try and work some things out on their own. Have some fits to show how 1hour old noob can fit his frig, what he can do after 30 days and then show a full t2 fit frig so that they can see the difference and see how skills and plans fit together so that they can fly said ship. They could even have some prefit ships on contract available for the corp.

Have someone in an orca go out with noob ventures- noobs get a bonus to their yields etc to make some cash but they also get time with someone who knows how mining, refining, selling ore works and can help out with stuff in fleet chat and answer questions etc.

Likewise, get some guest FCs in to take them out on some roams to null, low, wh or even gank fleets. Take out armour, drone, shield, brawler, kiting, ecm fleets etc and before they set off, explain to noobs the ships they are using, why, why they are fit in that way and how best to fly them.

The current training really pushes the solo aspect of the game. Having a corp like this will promote the group/ team aspect of the game. it will give noobs the chance to see the many aspects of the game and how good being in a good corp can be.

After 30/60 days, they will be kicked to one of the normal NPC corps but hopefully, by then, they will have already seen how good corp life can be and will have found a player corp to join. Corps win as well as they will be getting noobs who do actually know a bit and have some experience of the different parts of the game
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#98 - 2014-08-06 14:17:57 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.


this is the problem with many gamers: They are trying to escape something.

Well, people who have trouble dealing with real life are going to suck at EVE (a thinking gamer's game) as well. Most of the people I play EVE with are professionals in their fields who actually like their lives and see EVE as an enhancement of their lives/time.

So right there we see a major reason why EVE just isn't ever going to be real popular, it forces thinking rather than giving a player some rote/automatic reflex based thing to do. Lots of games are distractions and outlets for pent up rage (which is why I think 1st person shooter games are so popular).

EVE is more like a hobby, like this activity is (it's fun as hell, but it's just like EVE, pour man-hour after man-hour into something that has a combat life span measured in seconds lol).

Just because something is a 'game', that doesn't mean it's like other games.


To be fair, I have always seen Eve more as a hobby than a game.

Edit: Also HOLY HELL! I just watched your video. DO WANT!



this one is funny
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#99 - 2014-08-06 14:28:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


this one is funny

Shockedthat.was.e.p.i.c

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Dirk Axelrod
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2014-08-06 14:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Axelrod
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dirk Axelrod wrote:
I'm noob, < 2 mil SP.

This game takes work to understand how everything works, like hours of reading third party websites and can feel like a job when your supposed to be playing a game that's supposed to distract you from IRL for a few hours. I personally like that the game is deep like that, but I feel most prospective new players won't.

Add in that so many ppl are out to cheat you/ scam you and it makes the community seem off putting. The whole community seems hostile at times as well, like i'm playing LoL.

Another thing that has turned my friends off from playing is that it takes so long to accomplish what you want to do because of the whole SP thing. For instance in WoW, I can lvl from 1 - 90 in a a week, chug some mountain dew and grind. In a few weeks and w/ some moderate luck I'd be geared enough to do entry level raids. In eve there isn't really a way around the SP mountain, at least I haven't found one. For example: when I started playing I thought "wow covert ops looks fun I want to try that," so I set up a skill plan and then noticed the time: I wouldn't even be able to enter the ship for another month, and add on another few weeks to fly it at a decent level. I'm about halfway there now, but sometimes when I get home from work, I don't really have a desire to log in, not because I'm bored but rather because right now at my skill levels and wallet amount, I gain just as much from NOT logging on as I do from logging in. I'm not saying the SP system is bad, its just off putting to new players. Only noobs with tons of patience or noobs who keep there subs active only to train skills will be sticking around, and I personally feel that's not a high percentage.


Sorry for rambling, just my 2c

Got A Weak WillieBlink
Passive sp is one of the finer points that makes eve Much better than most games out there,
the glorious positive of this is that i prevents Smelly basement dwelling teens from power-grinding sp for 48 hour stretches.
this is good because adults (which is most of us) tend to have Jobs and Kids and other obligations .
be patient with the skill cue and learn how to eve before you complain about how it is.


I wasn't complaining, I don't mind the system at all. I was saying most new players won't have the patience, which explains the woes of new player retention.