These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

My take on the current stagnation
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2014-08-06 13:17:15 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
I know nothing of sov null, but from what I read it seems that a force of 20-30 or so active pilots currently cannot realistically conquer nor hold one single system, even if it's a system the so-called 'powerblocs' have relatively little strategical interest in.

In Faction Warfare, at the moment the Gallente are dominating their warzone. But while we can probably take pretty much any system, we have little interest in putting in the effort (time, not ISK) necessary to defend it (maintain 'Gallente sov') afterwards.

I'm aware that this argument (along with all others Smile) is nothing new, but wouldn't sov null be a more lively and fun place if players' time+dedication >> N. of Supercapitals+ISK in claiming/holding space?


You cannot do that by force even before the mega coalition existed. You had to work out blue standings or fight your way in. And 20-30 man corp can never do that. Not since the very beginning.
I'll certainly take your word on that, but is it the best possible gameplay?

Again, thinking out-of-the-box since I know nothing of sov null, I think the CFC has around 20,000 players?

Of which how many capable PVP-ers? 5,000? I mean that they more or less know what they're doing, not that EVEboard says they can fit a T2 battleship.

And how many systems do they control? 500 or so? Making that 10 decent combatants per system.


To expand on my post: if someone brings 50 decent combatants (5:1), or 30 highly skilled PVPers (3:1 but the 3 are cool Spartans), wouldn't it make sense if the game mechanics allowed them to take a system or two, unless it's VFK or a Technetium system?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dairokuten Maoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-08-06 13:19:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
Around this time last year was the 2013 slump. There were no cries from Mittani about power projection breaking null, there were no discussion about our stagnation. The slump last year was simply a slump.

…and there is nothing to suggest that this year's slump is not a slump. Correlation and causation and all that, you know?

Power projection breaking null has been a constant topic since, oh, 2009 or so. After all, that's when Dominion came out and sov became remained stupid (but in a different way than before). It was the “power projection problem” that caused the subsequent CSM to nerf jump bridges, which in turn spurred Mittens' kittens to put him on the council (along with numerous other nullseccers, thereby spawning the whole idiotic “nullsec cabal” conspiracy theory). Once he got on, the cries have remained constant, only without suggesting quite such silly nerfs.

So again I have to question your historical basis because you seem to ignore an awful lot of what actually happened just to create a pointlessly long EVE-is-dying-QQ thread.


Oh, and there is no end-game, by the way.


Everyone has their own way of entertaining themselves, and some event may seem insignificant to me while significant to you. So the critics about I'm ignoring a awful lot may be true. However,

End-Game always exist, even in a sandbox game, there is always a goal otherwise you cannot achieve anything. For example, to be able to fly in space you need to have a goal to fly in space. There are sub-goals such as press the undock button or fit up a ship before you undock. In short, Nothing can ever exist without a end.

My historical basis is based on comparing fourm threads posts around this time last year. And the stagnation or some called the null-sec cold war happened shortly after the hellcamp of O-W and collapse of SoCo which was in spring, Nulli stayed in 0.0 for less than a month after we took Fey and was deployed again. That was how boring it was.

余の前に人は無く、余の後にも人は無し Before me, nobody stands. Behind me, nobody stood.
Mochalatte
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#23 - 2014-08-06 13:20:26 UTC
For my small time back in EVE and the forums I see a few factors that might influence logging in. As follows..

1. Summer ( no, but really summer)
2. Plex Prices (people with 3-6 accounts dropped 1-3 accounts on average)
3. Patchs (drives people off at times from changes in their meta)
4. Normal churn of MMO's


I know this a simple list, but i think it holds true and there are a few other small category of why accounts aren't being subbed or logged. my 2 cents.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2014-08-06 13:22:41 UTC
Mochalatte wrote:
I have a very cute name.
Indeed! +1

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dairokuten Maoh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-08-06 13:26:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dairokuten Maoh
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
I disagree with your conclusions, and your lack of punctuation drives me insane. That being said, this is probably one of the better posts I have read on these forums in quite some time. I get the feeling that English is not your first language, so I overlooked some of the more glaring grammatical errors; those that would actually make sense in translation.

So, let's assume for a second that you are correct (though, as I stated, I don't believe you are). What exactly would you suggest as a solution?

To be honest, your thread comes across less as power projection, and more as your own projection. You have been here since 2009. Five years is a long time to be involved in any game. Are you sure it isn't just you who has reached "the end game", are bored, burned out, and find yourself with nothing new to strive toward? Personally, I still feel like I have a very long way to go before I run out of things to accomplish, and I am sure there are many others who feel the exact same way.



That is not true, even right now I strive to take fleet out and look for possible fights. I train new pilots to be more adequate at PVP and I still spend time in PVE to make up some of the fuel cost to deploy around EVE. There are a lot of player that are still new to game and is still experiencing with flying in space, so they should be fine for the time being, but there are a lot of 5 year old players or even older.

and yes, English is my third language.

余の前に人は無く、余の後にも人は無し Before me, nobody stands. Behind me, nobody stood.
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#26 - 2014-08-06 13:30:38 UTC
B-R was great

2 B-R class events per year just aren't enough though. We need many times more medium sized battles
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2014-08-06 13:32:34 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
End-Game always exist, even in a sandbox game, there is always a goal otherwise you cannot achieve anything.
Not quite. End-games always exist if you always create them. The beauty of the sandbox is that it separates “goal” from “end-game” since achieving a goal doesn't mean that it's the end… unless you choose to make it one.

Like you say, everyone has their own way of entertaining themselves. This means there can't be any kind of real end-game — just a point where you, personally can't entertain yourself any more for whatever reason.

Quote:
My historical basis is based on comparing fourm threads posts around this time last year. And the stagnation or some called the null-sec cold war happened shortly after the hellcamp of O-W and collapse of SoCo which was in spring, Nulli stayed in 0.0 for less than a month after we took Fey and was deployed again. That was how boring it was.

Then you could — and should — simply say that “I feel people complain more this summer than last” and stop at that, because none of the other things you try to drag into it are related or are even happening the way you seem to assume they are. Summer slumps have happened many many times before. Complaints about null stagnation have been around since before BoB. Complaints about power projection have been around ever since capital ships were introduced, but took a different tone after Dominion sov went live. None of it correlates with anything else.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-08-06 13:34:17 UTC
Dairokuten Maoh wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:
I disagree with your conclusions, and your lack of punctuation drives me insane. That being said, this is probably one of the better posts I have read on these forums in quite some time. I get the feeling that English is not your first language, so I overlooked some of the more glaring grammatical errors; those that would actually make sense in translation.

So, let's assume for a second that you are correct (though, as I stated, I don't believe you are). What exactly would you suggest as a solution?

To be honest, your thread comes across less as power projection, and more as your own projection. You have been here since 2009. Five years is a long time to be involved in any game. Are you sure it isn't just you who has reached "the end game", are bored, burned out, and find yourself with nothing new to strive toward? Personally, I still feel like I have a very long way to go before I run out of things to accomplish, and I am sure there are many others who feel the exact same way.


That is not true, even right now I strive to take fleet out and look for possible fights. I train new pilots to be more adequate at PVP and I still spend time in PVE to make up some of the fuel cost to deploy around EVE.

and yes, English is my third language.

I find it rather odd that there's all of this talk of stagnation, yet every FC I hear from is as busy as ever. Just because sov is not changing hands, does not mean that things are reaching the final stages of entropy. If nothing else, I think sov may be holding it's ground largely because most of the big coalitions are waiting to see what comes in the next few months.

Think about it this way: with all of the buzz and talk about the changes in sov mechanics, people are just continuing to work with what they have for the time being. Would you really want to go out and do a bunch of ****** Dominion sov grinding, if you believed that the mechanics of sov would be changing within a year or two?

The population dip is irrelevant, since we see that every year around this time, and this one is no worse than any other.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#29 - 2014-08-06 13:41:31 UTC
Let us assume there is stagnation, and the current forces of null start losing players and power along with it. Will that open the gates for some smaller entities to try their hand at obtaining sov, creating fun, and beginning the cycle all over again?

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Prince Kobol
#30 - 2014-08-06 13:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
I love how people are saying this is just summer and it happens every year even thou the sats show that the PCU has been in decline since March.

The fact that the PCU count is significantly down from this time last year and even lower then 2012, hell you have to go back to the Summer of Rage to find numbers lower then now.

Of course there is a dip every summer but this year is a lot worse then last year and we have yet to hit the high PCU counts of last year.

However lets pretend everything is just is fine, in fact Eve let pretend that Eve is doing better then ever and is well on course to hit those heady heights of having a constant 50k + online each day
Prince Kobol
#31 - 2014-08-06 13:47:36 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:


The population dip is irrelevant, since we see that every year around this time, and this one is no worse than any other.


Actually you have to go back 3 years ago to the Summer of Rage to find numbers as low as they are now.
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant
Pandemic Unicorns
#32 - 2014-08-06 13:48:26 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Current stagnation is due to summer holidays, and happens the same time every year.

/thread


What doesn't happen every year is for player population to fall off a cliff. See eve-offline, it's at its lowest level since 2008.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2014-08-06 13:51:02 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
Let us assume there is stagnation, and the current forces of null start losing players and power along with it. Will that open the gates for some smaller entities to try their hand at obtaining sov, creating fun, and beginning the cycle all over again?

Probably not until the sov mechanics are changed. Would you, as a new entity to nullsec, with a limited (or non-existent) capital fleet want to grind through Dominion sov? The collapse of IT, and the length of time before anyone could be bothered with Delve was a good example of this.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#34 - 2014-08-06 13:52:33 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:


The population dip is irrelevant, since we see that every year around this time, and this one is no worse than any other.


Actually you have to go back 3 years ago to the Summer of Rage to find numbers as low as they are now.


And you are concerned about this why, exactly?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#35 - 2014-08-06 13:53:43 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
I love how people are saying this is just summer and it happens every year even thou the sats show that the PCU has been in decline since March.
It's because the summer dip is the summer dip. Yes, population is down overall, but that is something separate from the summer dip. The population downturn started with Rubicon back in december and this summer has actually seen a decent recovery compared to last year.

During the worst period in late spring, we had a PCU deficit reaching 10–15,000 on a daily basis. That has been reduced to ~8,000 during the last few weeks.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-08-06 13:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallowmere Rorschach
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Current stagnation is due to summer holidays, and happens the same time every year.

/thread


What doesn't happen every year is for player population to fall off a cliff. See eve-offline, it's at its lowest level since 2008.

Sure, I'll bite. Just picking a tip in the spear of a slump, and the one random date in the recovery.
Weekly average for 7-10-2014: 24361
Weekly average for 7-24-2014: 26458

Weekly average for 9-11-2008: 17397
Weekly average for 10-30-2008: 22885

The current slump is nowhere near 2008.

Oh, and by the way:
Weekly average for 6-09-2011: 22619
Weekly average for 11-24-2011: 24881

What was that you were saying again?
As a whole, it's looking like we're more at summer of 2011 levels than 2008.
RoAnnon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-08-06 13:58:02 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
But it is winter in the Southern Hemisphere, so where are the fights.


The majority of EVE players lives north of the equator. Please re-phrase your question.

So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter.

Broadcast4Reps

Eve Vegas 2015 Pub Crawl Group 9

Houston EVE Meet
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#38 - 2014-08-06 14:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
For me it's pretty clear EVE now has 3+ decent spaceship MMO competitors (+2 more coming) and none of them has neither mandatory sub fee nor tremendous time sinks. No point to grind funds to buy new ship in EVE when you can start internet spaceship action in seconds in other games. Also 2 of those competitors are much more visually attractive than EVE (for me at least).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#39 - 2014-08-06 14:25:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Tarpedo wrote:
For me it's pretty clear EVE now has 3+ decent spaceship MMO competitors (+2 more coming) and none of them has neither mandatory sub fee nor tremendous time sinks.
Huh? Which ones are those?
I can only think of one, and it was pretty much DOA and far from decent (nor was it really a competitor to EVE).
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#40 - 2014-08-06 14:28:45 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
For me it's pretty clear EVE now has 3+ decent spaceship MMO competitors (+2 more coming) and none of them has neither mandatory sub fee nor tremendous time sinks. No point to grind funds to buy new ship in EVE when you can start internet spaceship action in seconds in other games. Also 2 of those competitors are much more visually attractive than EVE (for me at least).


Yay, so hopefully the instant gratification crowd can go somewhere else instead of trying to make EVe fit their needs. YAY.

Also, games about jet fighters in space dog fighting are not competition for EVE Online.