EVE General Discussion

Hello everyone,

Before I go into the reason of my post today, let me introduce myself for a little. I am a null-sec pvp grunt that has been participating in the 0.0 environment since 2009. I've been through most of great null-sec wars in EVE, and I am currently deployed in various place around eve in search of in-game content. I decided to post this thread because the "stagnation" is the current heated topic that a lot of people are talking about as well as I'm currently effected by it. I in no way insists that my view point is absolutely correct, however I hope that maybe it would at least provide a different point of view of why we are stuck at our current situation. Anyway, enough of introduction.

As a lot of you may have noticed, we are in a middle of a really slow summer. Some say it's the game mechanic, some said it's the human nature, and some other suggests it's the power projection. Although there are many discussions and theories regarding the reason why we are where we are today. I can't help but notice that the summer slump of 2014 has a lot more discussions compare to the previous year, as a lot more people are responding to the direct impact of the stagnation that is currently taking effect. Why is this year's summer slump such a big deal that everyone is talking about it? I think the answer is simple, because this has never happened before and it is effecting a lot of people.

So why is this year's stagnation making such a big impact to so many players? Some suggest that it's the power projection that is ruining the game by allowing a massive amount of force to be projected within a very shot period of time. Let's look back into some of the past historical fights, and there is no better example of power projection than the battle of B-R, and the events following. The battle of B-R lasted a whole day in the real world time, pilots from different time zone participated as they wake up from sleep or came back from work. The supercapitals were deployed in a short period of time into the battle from various place of EVE. A example of power projection at its finest. The battle was the biggest isk drain that EVE has ever seen. The battle of B-R showed us the ultimate outcome when our powers clash. It was a slow and painful battle, but it was magnificent.

After the battle, the powerful supercapitals were sent throughout the region for the clean up, and the space was quickly switched from N3 to SoCo. Followed by the hellcamp of O-W, many were speculating that this is the end of N3, as PL raise the flag and withdrew from the war as if a collapse is imminent. However it did not happen. The force of power projection from CFC and SoCo did not cause the N3/PL to collapse. Instead, shortly after the hellcamp of O-W, CFC withdrew all force from south and the SoCo collapsed. Some people suggests that CFC withdrew because they want to keep N3 alive so they have someone to fight. However, in my opinion, I believe that it's simply because that it cannot be sustained without a huge cost. As the hellcamp of O-W proves, after one week of intense projected power into one system, the evacuation of the system saw absolutely no resistance. There is no way to maintain such power projection for such prolong period of time. Not in game, and not in real life.

Art of War chapter one first sentence said, "To make war, it is a affair of nations, it is the matter of life and death, to survive as a nation or to extinct, therefore it is a decision one nation must make with the extreme caution" No war is ever made without a astronomical cost. Take example from the bombardment of Britain in WW2, the shell from Germany rained down hour after hour, the force of thousands of heavy bombers were deploying across sea and sent back throughout the day, the ground is particularly flat from the 24/7 bombardment. However the Germany was not even able to make a landing to England. Their power projection can not change the fact that it is only a matter of time before the Germany logistic can no longer keep up with the force they projected to both east and west. The very ability to project power broke Germany. As the book have warned, to make war it is a decision of life and death, one must make with extreme caution, or suffer utter annihilation. Even if America would be able to project a thousands of carriers that requires no support fleet into Asia during the war in Vietnam, they would never be able to conquer Vietnam. In conclusion,

NO POWER PROJECTION CAN BE SUSTAINED NOR CAN IT BREAK A SINGLE ENTITY. IT MAY KEEP THEM SUPPRESSED FOR A SHORT TIME(AT A HUGE COST), BUT IT IS NOT A GAME CHANGING FACTOR THAT WILL OVERRULE THE FOUNDATION OF WAR.

Some suggest the grinding of sov structure in null plus other broken mechanic has caused the current high bar in null security space. Again, history is our best teacher. Look back in time before there was mega coalition, there were small tribal alliances, take example from fountain there were the talocan, IT, BLAST, and Babylon 5 and other smaller group. The alliances were indeed small, and the pvp content was rich. However, it did not change the null-sec high bar during that time as well, to be able to live in fountain as a established entity, there were still only one way to do it. Obtain blue standing through diplomatic approach. AKA the renters (except there were no rent at that time). The other way to live there was to overwhelm the current occupant with a bigger amount of player who wishes to stay there. The final battle of PNQ, the staging system of IT alliance numbered exceeds 4000 in local. In the end fountain was turned over to TEST. and the null sec high bar was still there, and it did not cause the stagnation.

The post is reaching the character limit, so I will finish in the post below.

So does summer start in March?

And this is why you use a placeholder.

You don't see such heated discussion about current stagnation like this last summer. The post is pretty long, but I've addressed your theory why summer slump is not the case of our stabilization.

You're wrong. It has happened every summer for the last 4 years and is of roughly the same size as last year.

You mean the above part, the bit that is very obviously not actually based on anything?


Oh that part is easy. Because there is a group of eternal doomsayers who'll grasp at every straw to say that this year will be the year of the linux desktop the year EVE finally dies.

You're wrong. It has happened every summer for the last 4 years and is of roughly the same size as last year.

This time last year was the fountain war, and there were no cries about stagnation.

You mean the above part, the bit that is very obviously not actually based on anything?

Yes it is based on the fact that date back last year this time, there were no such heated discussion about stagnations. You can look through forum post in 2013 july and august. Even ccp has acknowledged that something needs to be done to change our current stagnation.


Oh that part is easy. Because there is a group of eternal doomsayers who'll grasp at every straw to say that this year will be the year of the linux desktop the year EVE finally dies.

Doomsayer has been there the whole time, and they cry about eve is dying before there was the stagnation. The discussion around EVE, Mittani, EN24, reddit that is happening right now. Is real. Around this time last year was the 2013 slump. There were no cries from Mittani about power projection breaking null, there were no discussion about our stagnation. The slump last year was simply a slump.

I know nothing of sov null, but from what I read it seems that a force of 20-30 or so active pilots currently cannot realistically conquer nor hold one single system, even if it's a system the so-called 'powerblocs' have relatively little strategical interest in.

In Faction Warfare, at the moment the Gallente are dominating their warzone. But while we can probably take pretty much any system, we have little interest in putting in the effort (time, not ISK) necessary to defend it (maintain 'Gallente sov') afterwards.

I'm aware that this argument (along with all others ) is nothing new, but wouldn't sov null be a more lively and fun place if players' time+dedication >> N. of Supercapitals+ISK in claiming/holding space?

You cannot do that by force even before the mega coalition existed. You had to work out blue standings or fight your way in. And 20-30 man corp can never do that. Not since the very beginning.

…and there is nothing to suggest that this year's slump is not a slump. Correlation and causation and all that, you know?

Power projection breaking null has been a constant topic since, oh, 2009 or so. After all, that's when Dominion came out and sov became remained stupid (but in a different way than before). It was the “power projection problem” that caused the subsequent CSM to nerf jump bridges, which in turn spurred Mittens' kittens to put him on the council (along with numerous other nullseccers, thereby spawning the whole idiotic “nullsec cabal” conspiracy theory). Once he got on, the cries have remained constant, only without suggesting quite such silly nerfs.

So again I have to question your historical basis because you seem to ignore an awful lot of what actually happened just to create a pointlessly long EVE-is-dying-QQ thread.


Oh, and there is no end-game, by the way.

I disagree with your conclusions, and your lack of punctuation drives me insane. That being said, this is probably one of the better posts I have read on these forums in quite some time. I get the feeling that English is not your first language, so I overlooked some of the more glaring grammatical errors; those that would actually make sense in translation.

So, let's assume for a second that you are correct (though, as I stated, I don't believe you are). What exactly would you suggest as a solution?

To be honest, your thread comes across less as power projection, and more as your own projection. You have been here since 2009. Five years is a long time to be involved in any game. Are you sure it isn't just you who has reached "the end game", are bored, burned out, and find yourself with nothing new to strive toward? Personally, I still feel like I have a very long way to go before I run out of things to accomplish, and I am sure there are many others who feel the exact same way.