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Please Lock This Thread. There's Enough Hogwash In Here Already.
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ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#21 - 2014-08-06 05:11:14 UTC
Shwartz Aideron wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Yeah, if all you find are small rocks, it's probably a good idea to move further from the trade hubs/highly populated areas.

People tend to not think about their fellow miners, and for good reason, they are the competition.


Need more competition, need more conflict drivers.

Indy guys are already somewhat dispersed from the hubs due to the industry changes... time to shake up mining a bit so people have more reason to conflict with eachother.


The mindless conflict that goes on now between miners and griefers isn't enough? I guess this is definitely the game for you, and either NO or CODE would love to have you.


I've done a lot of work for the New Order, but now I'm in retirement. What I want to see conflict between mining corps fighting over scarce resources.


While I agree that uncontested mining (and I mean completely uncontested mining) would be aweful for EVE, I would also like to mention that, as of right now, there is a lot of contesting for it. It may not be between two miner factions, but if you try to go into null sec, you get obliterated immediately. If you go into low sec, you have to constantly dodge rats, making it not worth your time. You mine in high sec, you get the worst rock types, and you have to watch out for CODE trying to suicide bomb you.

I kinda feel like it's contested enough...


Agreed. Well said.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#22 - 2014-08-06 06:54:49 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
I have no idea what you would have to mine to even consider cost of t2 crystals as a loss. Or where do you buy them so they are not covered by 1 full cycle of a strip miner?


Hi Sec?


Ehm, I bought my veld t2 crystals for 175k a piece, hauled 2000 of them 4 systems to the left and put 1500 of them on sale at 350k (100 - 150k under lowest sell order in area at that time). And they are selling. My hulk produces 40k+ of veldspar per cycle, at current prices how many crystals this can buy me, 2 - 3?

Counting crystals as significant cost of your mining ops is just as reasonable as counting ammo cost while farminig L4s. Unless of course you have no idea what you are doing.

Invalid signature format
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#23 - 2014-08-06 07:31:39 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
I have no idea what you would have to mine to even consider cost of t2 crystals as a loss. Or where do you buy them so they are not covered by 1 full cycle of a strip miner?


Hi Sec?


Ehm, I bought my veld t2 crystals for 175k a piece, hauled 2000 of them 4 systems to the left and put 1500 of them on sale at 350k (100 - 150k under lowest sell order in area at that time). And they are selling. My hulk produces 40k+ of veldspar per cycle, at current prices how many crystals this can buy me, 2 - 3?

Counting crystals as significant cost of your mining ops is just as reasonable as counting ammo cost while farminig L4s. Unless of course you have no idea what you are doing.


There are only a few disconnects here.

I mine. Someone else does the marketing.

My miner has a Specific Yield of 53.7 m3 per second. That's (yield per turret x number of turrets) / cycle time. I seriously doubt that one cycle's yield from one turret would pay for 1 crystal.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#24 - 2014-08-06 07:46:34 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Or you could simply find a system with three or more belts and strip a belt per day. Then you always have a mature belt to clear.

Mr Epeen Cool


Unfortunately, for one miner, a belt lasts about 4 hours and provides about 100 million ISK. Minimum belts required would be 6, and it wouldn't work in a system where there were other miners.


God bless you for having the fortitude to mine for 8 hours a day. But I can assure you that you are in the minority. Three belts in an empty backwater system is more then enough for most miners.

Mr Epeen Cool
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#25 - 2014-08-06 08:10:38 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:

There are only a few disconnects here.

I mine. Someone else does the marketing.

My miner has a Specific Yield of 53.7 m3 per second. That's (yield per turret x number of turrets) / cycle time. I seriously doubt that one cycle's yield from one turret would pay for 1 crystal.


Ok, I buy my own stuff but I wouldn't call it marketing. And I saw opportunity for trade so I took it. Not exactly trader myself though.

But anyway, even if you would buy t2 crystal for some idiotic price like 1 mil per piece and your hulk needs 3 of them how much time would it take you to mine enough to cover cost of crystals? In my case it's 6 maybe 10 minutes depending on ore (maxed out hulk, almost maxed out orca). And crystals survive at least few hours of really intensive mining because damage is chance based. I had 1 crystal taking significant damage while 2 others were barely scratched. And I watch my scanner and I watch my cycles so there's a lot of start/stop on lazors.

Cost of crystals is not even a factor in calculating profits from mining. Not even in hisec. Sorry, but that's my first hand experience and you cannot convince me otherwise.

Invalid signature format
ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#26 - 2014-08-06 10:16:39 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:

There are only a few disconnects here.

I mine. Someone else does the marketing.

My miner has a Specific Yield of 53.7 m3 per second. That's (yield per turret x number of turrets) / cycle time. I seriously doubt that one cycle's yield from one turret would pay for 1 crystal.


Ok, I buy my own stuff but I wouldn't call it marketing. And I saw opportunity for trade so I took it. Not exactly trader myself though.

But anyway, even if you would buy t2 crystal for some idiotic price like 1 mil per piece and your hulk needs 3 of them how much time would it take you to mine enough to cover cost of crystals? In my case it's 6 maybe 10 minutes depending on ore (maxed out hulk, almost maxed out orca). And crystals survive at least few hours of really intensive mining because damage is chance based. I had 1 crystal taking significant damage while 2 others were barely scratched. And I watch my scanner and I watch my cycles so there's a lot of start/stop on lazors.

Cost of crystals is not even a factor in calculating profits from mining. Not even in hisec. Sorry, but that's my first hand experience and you cannot convince me otherwise.


Very well then. I won't try. I will take another look at laser crystal wear though.

What you say about crystal cost not being a part of profitability, well, I can kind of agree with that. I could always try mining without them and probably save enough ISK to buy the ore I don't mine.

That was meant to be a joke, BTW. :)
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#27 - 2014-08-06 10:45:02 UTC
All cool but keep in mind we are posting in newbie forum and we have enough of half-truths and flat out false claims around that newbies have no way of distinguishing from facts, ie: AFK mining can any significant profits. It can't and it doesn't but a lot of people repeat this like some universal truth and newbies believe in it. And then they get bitter because their retriever was hanging in space for minutes or hours before they noticed rock popped or ore hold got full. And what did they make? Jack sh!t.

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-08-06 10:47:06 UTC
It can make you rich Schmata.

If you gank said AFK miners, loot and salvage the wrecks and sell it.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#29 - 2014-08-06 10:51:19 UTC
That's true :)

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ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#30 - 2014-08-06 12:54:00 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
All cool but keep in mind we are posting in newbie forum and we have enough of half-truths and flat out false claims around that newbies have no way of distinguishing from facts, ie: AFK mining can any significant profits. It can't and it doesn't but a lot of people repeat this like some universal truth and newbies believe in it. And then they get bitter because their retriever was hanging in space for minutes or hours before they noticed rock popped or ore hold got full. And what did they make? Jack sh!t.



I don't post things in here unless I have done some research. I still haven't accepted your theory. Like I said. I'll check it out.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#31 - 2014-08-06 13:48:07 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
1. Correct. This is working as intended.
2. Correct, assuming the pilot is timing their cycles to maximize ISK / hour.
3. Partially correct. The "leftover" rocks aren't re-spawned as "second day", but rather get however much ore they're supposed to.

For example, if Veldspar spawns in 50,000 units / day, and you leave a rock with 1,000 units, you will end up with a bigger rock having 51,000 units (not 100k, as you seem to be implying).


TBH, daily respawns are one of the things I hate most about the belts ... the twice per week stuff we had back in 07/08 was a nice conflict driver ... (well, for the small hisec corps I was in at the time).


I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

If you leave a few rocks of each type in a belt, the whole belt will re-spawn a 3rd day after DT. Also, rocks can't grow. It's a computing impossibility. Check them out. Each time the reach 3rd day they will be exactly the same size they were the last time you scanned them. Each rock is a different size, but the size is set. On the 3rd day it will never be any bigger than it's set size.


Oh, then what would you call the process of gaining (for example) 50k veld at DT, if not "growth"?

And I never said it would "get bigger" than it's maximum size. Perhaps you should re-read what I said.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#32 - 2014-08-06 15:09:35 UTC
ACY GTMI wrote:
I don't post things in here unless I have done some research. I still haven't accepted your theory. Like I said. I'll check it out.


That's fine with me. Everybody should listen to advice but do their own evaluation, fact checking and decisions that are good for them at that given moment. What I consider zero cost now was big chunk of wallet when I was a newbie. 175k price tag on those t2 crystals I mentioned earlier is in fact more than you can get from L1 mission as reward. It's 1/3 or 1/4 of venture price :)

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ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
#33 - 2014-08-07 00:27:50 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
ACY GTMI wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
1. Correct. This is working as intended.
2. Correct, assuming the pilot is timing their cycles to maximize ISK / hour.
3. Partially correct. The "leftover" rocks aren't re-spawned as "second day", but rather get however much ore they're supposed to.

For example, if Veldspar spawns in 50,000 units / day, and you leave a rock with 1,000 units, you will end up with a bigger rock having 51,000 units (not 100k, as you seem to be implying).


TBH, daily respawns are one of the things I hate most about the belts ... the twice per week stuff we had back in 07/08 was a nice conflict driver ... (well, for the small hisec corps I was in at the time).


I really don't understand what you are trying to say.

If you leave a few rocks of each type in a belt, the whole belt will re-spawn a 3rd day after DT. Also, rocks can't grow. It's a computing impossibility. Check them out. Each time the reach 3rd day they will be exactly the same size they were the last time you scanned them. Each rock is a different size, but the size is set. On the 3rd day it will never be any bigger than it's set size.


Oh, then what would you call the process of gaining (for example) 50k veld at DT, if not "growth"?

And I never said it would "get bigger" than it's maximum size. Perhaps you should re-read what I said.



And all I said was that there are three sizes of rocks after DT. 1st day, 2nd day, and 3rd day. There are no values in between.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#34 - 2014-08-07 01:37:06 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
It can make you rich Schmata.

If you gank said AFK miners, loot and salvage the wrecks and sell it.


You can repossess their ore too.

I scout in a Procurer for a reason when ganking. Really should scout in a Retriever to make me even better at retrieving ore.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
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