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Warp speed changes need a redo

Author
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#1 - 2014-08-05 16:10:02 UTC
Sadly the recent changes to ship warp speeds have made anything bigger than a cruiser a nightmare to fly. I wonder, did the person implementing these changes do it through a lens of assuming most battleships and larger would just move through cynos and bridges?

Consider:

- Cruisers: buff warp speed, to 3.3 AU, faction/pirate variants to 3.5 AU
- Battlecruisers: buff warp speed to 3.0 AU, faction/pirate variants to 3.3 AU
- Battleships: buff warp speed to to 2.7 AU, faction/pirate variants to 3.0 AU
- ....etc

Interceptors, frigates and AF's would still retain a huge mobility advantage, but at least now the bigger ships would be playable and fun to fly again.

F
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#2 - 2014-08-05 17:51:35 UTC
Having just taken forever to move a Domi a mere 10 systems in hisec yesterday, I can sympathize. Bigger ships should warp more slowly, but I think the change could stand to be rolled back just a smidge.

I predict CCP's response will be "fit warp speed modules/rigs to travel", but I say +1 anyways.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Christopher Tsutola
State Navy
#3 - 2014-08-05 18:21:04 UTC
the current speeds are fine as they are and this is coming from some one who constantly flies freighters hub to hub
Bullet Therapist
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2014-08-05 18:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Bullet Therapist
Personally, I'm fine with the warp speed changes as they've been applied to sub-capitals. The problem I see is that that the other characteristics of CBCs and battleships should be changed to reflect their downsides. Poor tracking (at least in the battleships case,) inability to sig/speed tank, long lock times, and inability to dictate range should be balanced by endurance, DPS, and tank. In the case of CBCs and battleships I don't think that the strengths of the classes are good enough to balance the downsides. I'd rather see the warp speeds remain the same and other aspects of the classes be buffed to compensate.

Either way, something needs to be done. A buff to the skirmishing aspect of heavy ships, a buff to their raw combat capabilities, or a combination of both is in order. Just my .02 isk.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#5 - 2014-08-05 18:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
If it were up to me, I would have set battlecruisers as the fulcrum upon which the warp speed changes were balanced. A cap would be appropriate for T2 frigates in such a situation (interceptors especially) but it would see battleships being slowed a bit less. It was, however, not up to me and so now you all have to live with 2 AU/sec in your TFIs and Nightmares.

On the other hand, I do wonder what that would have done to freighters.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#6 - 2014-08-05 19:04:05 UTC
I happen to really like the warp-speed acceleration change. Even if most of the time, I'm in a slow battleships @ 3.16 Au/s for massive investment (mach + ascendency epsilon) it still adds flavor, strategic vs. tactical mobility concerns and make eve more fun.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#7 - 2014-08-05 19:33:30 UTC
I hear only whine ...

I am traveling in general with Battleships and Orcas ... no idea what kind of problems you have .. and my route is usually 25+ jumps. But I tend to plan ahead and move stuff only when needed, set up bases and fit for travel ... but I might be alone considering things before whining ... well, as I see maybe not. Some still put in the work, not to have to suffer too much from the status quo of the game.

So 'no' to warp speed changes, they seem fine to me. And usually its the acceleration / deceleration that feels most annoying, not warp speed or align time, but that's beside the topic.
Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-08-05 20:08:36 UTC
What about a deployable that could be fueled and allowed for increased warp acceleration?

It would stay up until someone took it down, but could only activate if fueled. It would allow BS sized ships to warp at cruiser (or faster then cruiser) speeds depending on the variant of the deployable structure used.

This could add strategic importance to certain systems or allow ganking gangs in larger ships.
Netan MalDoran
Cathedral.
Shadow Cartel
#9 - 2014-08-05 20:09:48 UTC
There are some issues to be fixed.

For example, (I think these are the right ships) my Algos dessie has a 2.5 warp while my big a** tayra indy has warp of 3? There's something wrong with that.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#10 - 2014-08-05 22:48:13 UTC
Having moved larger ships, I sympathise with your pain.
Overall the warp speed changes have been a major benefit, but I do not understand how making the game more painful for battlecruisers and battleship adds to the game.
Freighters are not something I use, I think I might welcome anything that saves me having to deal with that, being ganked would almost be like being put out of my misery.

Something to make a significant warp speed improvement for battleships would be welcome, as a travel fit option. The current options are a bit underwhelming.

One for CCP to decide if it is good for the game to leave as it is, I am unconvinced it is.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#11 - 2014-08-06 01:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Ability to skip systems every now and than would speed them up by some

Lets call it slipstream driv3 or something have adequate cool down so it isnt possible to own space travel and you cant use it on sec status gates ie you cant skip o.4 to 0.5 gate etc.

For such massive ships it is kinda meh to abide by basic game mechanic ie for such size one would expect it can travel further faster, than ships that can barely fit pilot and some canned food.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Knoppaz
distress signals
#12 - 2014-08-06 08:38:37 UTC
The system works fine. I would even prefer to widen the acceleration gap between small and large ships (intys for example should imho accelerate and deccelerate near instantly imho). And just to let you know, I fly everything from inty to freighter.
If at all, the warp-speed could get a boost across the board, but I don't really see the need for it..


Knoppaz / distressSIGNALS http://distresssignals.tumblr.com

a capsuleer's way to insanity

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#13 - 2014-08-06 08:44:46 UTC
+1

Battleships really took it in the pants on the warp speed changes, which is sad because many of them are iconic ships of EVE.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Sigras
Conglomo
#14 - 2014-08-06 08:52:36 UTC
The Eve universe needs to be bigger not smaller...

Travel should be slower not faster.
Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2014-08-06 09:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Grobalobobob Bob
tbh, i have no idea why smaller ships fly faster in eve. Sure smaller ships are more manoeuvrable, naturally, but faster.. i have my reservation.

The bigger the ship, the more muscle it should technically have (within a gravity well).

compare any animal you like.

Big cats are faster than smaller cats.
Big dogs are faster than small dogs.
Bigger birds are faster than smaller birds.
Large flightless birds are faster than smaller flightless birds.

If you wanted to be pedantic mass is meaningless in space anyway - something the size of the moon, something the size of an ant.. is all relational. If anything you'll expect the engines on a providence to unleash more torque than that of a frigate - and if mass is meaningless, more torque on the engines, more thrust means higher top speed.

But this is EvE, where a spud gun does the same damage as a 3000 kt nuke.

I put it down to a 'wizard did it'
Christopher Tsutola
State Navy
#16 - 2014-08-06 09:52:19 UTC
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:
tbh, i have no idea why smaller ships fly faster in eve. Sure smaller ships are more manoeuvrable, naturally, but faster.. i have my reservation.

The bigger the ship, the more muscle it should technically have (within a gravity well).

compare any animal you like.

Big cats are faster than smaller cats.
Big dogs are faster than small dogs.
Bigger birds are faster than smaller birds.
Large flightless birds are faster than smaller flightless birds.

If you wanted to be pedantic mass is meaningless in space anyway - something the size of the moon, something the size of an ant.. is all relational. If anything you'll expect the engines on a providence to unleash more torque than that of a frigate - and if mass is meaningless, more torque on the engines, more thrust means higher top speed.

But this is EvE, where a spud gun does the same damage as a 3000 kt nuke.

I put it down to a 'wizard did it'


Larger animals move faster do to the length of there strides that comparison does not work here.

as for mass being meaningless in space i would like for you to go back over Newtons Laws before you post any further
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#17 - 2014-08-06 10:03:35 UTC
Sigras wrote:
The Eve universe needs to be bigger not smaller...

Travel should be slower not faster.


My guess is that you are a miner.

Because only a miner would say "more tedium please!"

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2014-08-06 10:07:03 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
Personally, I'm fine with the warp speed changes as they've been applied to sub-capitals. The problem I see is that that the other characteristics of CBCs and battleships should be changed to reflect their downsides. Poor tracking (at least in the battleships case,) inability to sig/speed tank, long lock times, and inability to dictate range should be balanced by endurance, DPS, and tank. In the case of CBCs and battleships I don't think that the strengths of the classes are good enough to balance the downsides. I'd rather see the warp speeds remain the same and other aspects of the classes be buffed to compensate.

Either way, something needs to be done. A buff to the skirmishing aspect of heavy ships, a buff to their raw combat capabilities, or a combination of both is in order. Just my .02 isk.



Taht is the correct way to view it. Battleships were massively nerfed by losign mobility. CCP shoudl pay them back with MORE DPS and EHP. At least 10-15% more of both.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2014-08-06 10:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:
tbh, i have no idea why smaller ships fly faster in eve. Sure smaller ships are more manoeuvrable, naturally, but faster.. i have my reservation.

The bigger the ship, the more muscle it should technically have (within a gravity well).

compare any animal you like.

Big cats are faster than smaller cats.
Big dogs are faster than small dogs.
Bigger birds are faster than smaller birds.
Large flightless birds are faster than smaller flightless birds.

If you wanted to be pedantic mass is meaningless in space anyway - something the size of the moon, something the size of an ant.. is all relational. If anything you'll expect the engines on a providence to unleash more torque than that of a frigate - and if mass is meaningless, more torque on the engines, more thrust means higher top speed.

But this is EvE, where a spud gun does the same damage as a 3000 kt nuke.

I put it down to a 'wizard did it'



oo right.. then put a rabbit running against an hippo and see witch one wins... And no mass is NEVER irrelevant. Go to physics 101. F=M.a that uncorrelated to gravity. Mass is absolute until you get at subatomic level of at relativistic speed levels.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Valkin Mordirc
#20 - 2014-08-06 10:09:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
I like the idea, speed things up a bit, but keep it within the realms of reason. Moving around in anything bigger than a cruiser is a tedious thing to do, and although tedium in EVE should be expected, it shouldn't be buffed.


Battlecruiser/ships I would say have taken the biggest hit, the role they played was kinda iffy to start with, now they are even harder to deal with. I can deal with the 3AU speed of a cruiser but anything slower than that and I find myself wondering the fabric of life and such, almost to the point where if it become any slower than that, I'd probably start getting the answers.


EDIT, Just got caught in a fleet warp with a dread somehow: 42, Chocolate, and no.
#DeleteTheWeak
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