Science & Industry

The Industry changes are exciting. Too bad I gave up on Industry years ago.

So while some people may quit, other people who had previously quit will return. Things will balance out.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72105811/Pics/Thatcher.jpg

So, what about mining as a profession, a way to earn isk?
I checked the price history and can see it drops, but not very much, prices go down slowly.
But, as I said, 1 mackinaw costs now twice less, this means the ore itself grew larger in terms on cubic meters.
So, my income was cut in half by this 'cruis' patch, which makes miner profession even less profitable, compared to other activities.
What about months of my training skills in mining, how I am being compensated for losing that? Because it seems now I must re-learn and switch to another activities if I want to keep isk/hour the same. Definitely, I'm not going to earn isk by mining, maybe I'll mine for myself to replenish charges ammo, but not for profit. And definitely I'm not anymore able to mine myself a plex. And I dont thing I'm going to re-learn to earn isk by different methods, because I dont want to, it takes time and I must pay for that time, is what I'm not going to do. I was ok, but now they took my job.
Also, I dont see reports of any person or 'team' from ccp to be fired. Why? Because they screwed up the game, ruined industry, and brought to ccp a huge lot of reputational loss.
I'm not paying for subscription until my mining profession is made profitable again, at the same level it was before 'crius', 10 M/hour in high-sec.

*snip* 30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited. ~ ISD Decoy

Nope. No changes in the volume of scordite. It's 0.15 m3 per unit, and has been since I started playing.


Now there were changes to mining barges with Kronos, but not to the size of a mack's cargohold. and now ones which would cut profitability in half.

Then there are the changes to ore reprocessing, but if you're running at 5,5,4 and no refining implant, it's only about a 6% drop.

Unless, for some reason, you're refining at a 30% station. At which point it's around a 44% drop. Simple solution: Move to another station to do your refining. It's not like 30% stations are common.

It's only a 6% drop in mining income if you choose to sell the minerals. If you compress and sell the ore, mining income has increased drastically.

And yes, trit prices are down from their inflated prices that the peaked at due to speculation. That happens with pretty much every expansion. Trit prices aren't even close to an all time low. they aren't even back down to February's prices yet.

As for the POS, a small POSwith just a compression array can be kept sitting offline, costing nothing. If someone decs it, just pull it down and wait, though nobody will pay 50M to war dec an offline POS with no chance of good loot uless they really want that moon.

This is a hilariously pulled out of the ass figure. Most miners will have increased profit, not decreased, and the once that have certainly haven't lost 25%. How you even come to that figure I have no idea.

Dinsdale, why don't you just quit? You clearly hate the game, and nothing they do, even a massive improvement to highsec industry which this is, will make you happy. You are going to whine for all eternity, so just leave. Quite and go play a game you don't hate and stop wasting your life.

Basically, Industrialists got screwed with this expansion in general and the hisec ones in specific, the new installation cost for manufacturing and RE add new burden to the tight profit margins we were getting pre-Cirus. the over stocked manufactured goods pre-Cirus are competing aggressively with the prices of manufacturing ships and components post-Cirus. Even if you found low index systems you can't match the manufacture cost before the expansion, unless the market got flushed and refreshed through major long wars in nullsec you won't find many industrialist nose diving much and the only exception for this are nullsec indy's, nullsec will be happy to buy w/e in the their market at any cost as long it's affordable and reachable to every hand there.

How did they get screwed? Profit margins won't be affected much by the increase in installation cost (which pre-crius was ridiculous and pointless), because everyone has to pay the increased cost. Sure, there's going to be leftover stock, but those will clear pretty quickly. You should have seen the same issue in the past few months anyway, since mineral prices went up pretty drastically. How come we didn't see pages of people whining "I can't make things as cheaply as they were made last month!"?

It's still definitely possible to make a heap of profit in high sec industry. I'm doing it pretty well (and yes, I'm a nullsec player, but all of my industry is currently in highsec), and if you look around you'll see other people reporting the same. The reaction you are having here is a knee-jerk reaction not based on actually trying the system out, just parroting what you think you should be saying. Learn to play.

I've already said it a few times, but I'll say it once more.

Do. Not. Refine. Sell Ore.

If you mine a lot, get a small tower and compression array and sell compressed ore. If you mine a bit more casually, look up a system where good buy orders for ore exists and sell to those. You can get very good ISK for raw, uncompressed ore in many places in highsec.

Why? Because supercap builders are in a bind, effectively out of raw materials. They are willing to pay a premium right now for ore form materials, partially because they have no choice, partially because they get more minerals out of the ore when they refine it at a fully ugpraded nullsec station, so ore is actually worth more to them than it is to anyone in high sec.

A Titan build eats up massive quantities of minerals. Here is a nice demonstration;

http://eve.smith-net.org.uk/capital/avatar/

Single Avatar. 4 billion units of Tritanium (40 million m3, or around 40 freighter loads), a billion units of Pyerite (10 million m3), 340M units of Mexallon... try hauling those (in mineral form). From highsec to nullsec. Good luck.

Before Crius supercap builders bought mass quantities of low end minerals from highsec miners and built modules (425mm railguns being a favored example), then moved those to nullsec via Jump Freighters and reprocessed them (minor losses). This no longer works due to module reprocessing changes - you'd lose half your minerals.

Only workable solution is to move around compressed ore. Only way to get that is to have normal ore. Once refined, the material becomes worthless to large scale builders in low/null sec. Do not refine, unless you plan on using the minerals yourself.

Don't believe me? Try it. Put your ore up for sale in the system you mined it at, at price that is higher than what the minerals you would get out it are. Assuming the size of the lot is large enough (nobody comes to haul for 100 Veldspar...) I guarantee you someone will snap it up, haul it to a POS, compress and then jump it to null (or sell it to a null builder in highsec).

The more I think about it, the less I'm satisfied with compression requiring a POS. Compression should be ubiquitous and easy. I would like to (again) call for compression being available in stations as well as POS. I'd even be fine with it only being available in empire, or in non-outposts, should the technical aspects of adding a compression service to outposts prove to be a significant barrier. (Hopefully, adding the service to conquerable 0.0 stations like the sort that exist in VFK-IV, 3JN9-Q, and CZDJ-1 would provide a small incentive to actually use these otherwise low-value stations in conquerable nullsec!)

I'd also like to see the reprocessing UI flag uncompressed ore as unprofitable to refine if the compressed ore would have an average price >=120% of its constituent minerals.

While I can see why they wanted to keep it on a POS to keep the POS in use and promote a bit of fighting, the realism is that most people will set up an offline POS ad just switch it on when they haul from station to POS and back. I wouldn't see any issue with making that an in station thing. It would pretty much just be removing the time sink of hauling back and forth from the station.

Oh dear, sound the alarm, the lords of null sec can't get enough minerals so now we are supposed to make yet another change to allow you crybabies to faceroll your way to more supers.