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The Cost of Fun
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flakeys
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-07-05 09:12:52 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Unfortunately EVE as a casual game isn't very rewarding.





Quite the opposite , in eve you CAN play only a few hours a week and still make a big enough progression in assets/isk while your character is being 'skilled' as fast as the guy who is playing 20 hours a week.


The best part is that eve is a game in wich making isk is a matter of picking up the right 'tools' handed to you so you can make a lot more money then the guy playing 3 / 5 / 10 times more hours then you.

The thing is though , the people complaining about eve being a grinding game are allmost allways the ones who 'stick to their tool' instead of looking what other options there are.The best example of this type of player are the miner and the missioner .


People should not blaim CCP for their own lack of resourcefullness ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#42 - 2014-08-04 11:49:32 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Christina Project wrote:
Let's all hunt down and kill the OP.

And grinding for ISK to pay the sub,
just to play the game is for losers with less life than I have.



Odd that you seem to make a statement that seems more on the side of the point I was hoping to make, and yet you go and say you want to hunt me down...

Btw I am in Rens, send everything you've got. :)

Sorry, I didn't actually think I'll get a response. :D

How about you meet my sister in Hek? :D

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#43 - 2014-08-04 12:14:08 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
I used to think that games were meant to be escapes, you log in and you let go. The world itself lets you escape into it and you make the game what it is by the experiences you have and the friends you make. Somewhere along the line it seems even a game became a job, with people carrying on multiple accounts, bots, or even using third party services in these massively multiplayer games. When you can't just play a game and let go it seems to become some kind of indentured servitude where you log in just to do things that will hopefully allow you to play the game the way you want and truly enjoy yourself.

I have a passion, a truly great passion deep inside me, and that passion feels deadened by the need to 'work' at something meant to be enjoyed. I feel that it is disturbing when others feel they have to earn their game time just so they can do what they want to do. I get that it is cool to be able to forgo having to pay and therefore play the game free for a set time. However, what is the true cost that is involved when forgoing paying the $15 a month fee to play EVE and build content that will inspire others to just play. The very thought of having to grind to earn Isk and waste away time doing things which are boring sucks to me. Aren't we the game? Aren't the people what make the experience noteworthy and worth it to bother to log in every day? I see you people grinding out missions and carrying out tasks just like you might in real life and seemingly lacking the ability to just let go. What happens in a game when we emulate life inside of it letting it be nothing more then a sheer reflection of who we are as a people? Everyone seeming to run around and do errands as the new player logs in looking for others to play with that are too busy to care.

Can we just let go. I challenge you to let go, let live, and have fun.


Why are you concerned with what other people are doing? Why do you care if someone else is doing a mission or whatever. "A game" means different things to different people. For me EVE and games like it are more hobby than 'game'.

Over-bearing concern for how others spend their free time usually means that the person being concern has too much free time.

"A game" means different things to different people. For me EVE and games like it are more hobby than 'game',
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#44 - 2014-08-04 12:17:19 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:

I have a passion, a truly great passion deep inside me, and that passion feels deadened by the need to 'work' at something meant to be enjoyed.


The quote is a glimpse into an empty soul that knows neither true passion nor true hard work.


+1 for for being some deep lol.
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-08-04 12:26:14 UTC
So what is this then? someone does something i dont like and find boring so how can they enjoy it thread? or omg plex is expensive nerf plex thread?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#46 - 2014-08-04 12:26:17 UTC
Grobalobobob Bob wrote:
The OP does have a strong, valid point though.

It's a lot of isk to farm every month for a plex, when you play casually. Which means, you either burn yourself out farming for your whole month just to get a free next month to do nothing but farm isk for the next month. there's no reward, no gain in doing that, and no fun.

Personally i have my account on a subscription, so my time in eve is dedicated to 'trying' to have some fun. EvE isn't perfect by a long shot, for all the reasons in the OP, but, even though I'm on a mission to try to 'help' from my POV the things that would make 'my' time in eve greater. It seems to conflict heavily with the general sentiment other players have to EvE, but even though my comments and suggestions are geared towards being vocal about my frustrations I'm prepared to take the forum flames and in game death threats as part of the mission! EvE is EvE after all.

With games like this, you have to have a knowledge of what you want from it. I get no fun grinding the next month subscription. My primary source of fun in eve is doing the carebear stuff that the PvP community detest; level 4s with friends, on skype for a couple of hours two / three times a week. That's about my limit before i want to put EvE away, and, more importantly forces me to not get obsessed in farming plex for next month.

My only advice is do what you want to, otherwise you'll want to unsub with a headache.


How is 26 million isk per day (a sum that can be had by completing than looting a SINGLE lvl 4 mission like blockade, worlds collide, Drear Pilot Scarlet etc etc) somehow "a lot if isk to farm"? Even just doing an activity that makes 60 million isk per hour (like null sec anomalies in an ishtar or navy Vexor) will get you a plex in 13 hours.

Woah, 13 hours is a lot!!! No, it's not, when the activity is damn near afk and the result is 720 hours (one month) of game time. That's just how I do it because I like ratting, but there are TONS of passive isk generation things like PI that people do where they spend a few minutes per day (or even week) and get to play the game for 'free'.

the problem isn't the price of plex, it's your ignorance of how to make isk comfortably in a game that damn near throws isk at you.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2014-08-04 13:00:28 UTC
So, if I am reading this correctly, bearing is bad for ISK generation, PVP sucks up all of the ISK, and it's all one long miserable slog.

Man, I have been playing this game so very wrong, for quite some time now.
Kharaxus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2014-08-04 14:10:19 UTC
I used to wash dishes for a living @ 7$ an hour. It was an excellent job, excellent atmosphere, hot chicks, great place to just let go, etc....

But I wasn't making enough money.

I figured I would have to get a second job washing more dishes to get the paycheck I needed. Then I realized if I do better work, versus more work, I would have a better time.
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2014-08-04 14:48:14 UTC
Kharaxus wrote:
I used to wash dishes for a living @ 7$ an hour. It was an excellent job, excellent atmosphere, hot chicks, great place to just let go, etc....

But I wasn't making enough money.

I figured I would have to get a second job washing more dishes to get the paycheck I needed. Then I realized if I do better work, versus more work, I would have a better time.

So you became an investment banker with largely passive income, and now snort Drop off of hookers' asses using billion ISK bills?

But yeah, seriously, passive income is where it's at. Why just make 50-60m per hour, a few hours per day, when you can make that, plus an extra 4-5m (or more if you get into the right stuff) per hour, constantly? Hell, I made right around 1.5b passively in the last two weeks, and just had to make a couple of trips to Jita to cash out and resupply, and I'm completely new at it, with relatively little as a starting investment.
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#50 - 2014-08-04 15:14:44 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:

I have a passion, a truly great passion deep inside me, and that passion feels deadened by the need to 'work' at something meant to be enjoyed. I feel that it is disturbing when others feel they have to earn their game time just so they can do what they want to do. I get that it is cool to be able to forgo having to pay and therefore play the game free for a set time. However, what is the true cost that is involved when forgoing paying the $15 a month fee to play EVE and build content that will inspire others to just play. The very thought of having to grind to earn Isk and waste away time doing things which are boring sucks to me. Aren't we the game? Aren't the people what make the experience noteworthy and worth it to bother to log in every day? I see you people grinding out missions and carrying out tasks just like you might in real life and seemingly lacking the ability to just let go. What happens in a game when we emulate life inside of it letting it be nothing more then a sheer reflection of who we are as a people? Everyone seeming to run around and do errands as the new player logs in looking for others to play with that are too busy to care.



One person's fun is another person's work.

It's a sandbox if they play in such a way that it resembles a job, that's up to them. As far as playing to earn enough to be able to buy PLEX to fund the account, that's their choice as nobody is forcing them.

Biggest anti-fun factors in this game is the long training times and the high cost of dying especially if you make a habit of it.

RL emulation, not surprising as it's a sandbox where people make up a lot of the content one way or another. But it's the same in other MMOs, real people play and a lot of them bring all their old baggage with them.

A lot of those people running around doing errands and not grouping are people that don't want to group, which is the same in most MMOs (if not all). Eve also has a reputation for not trusting other players as well which adds to the not wanting to group mind-set.
Kharaxus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2014-08-04 15:22:53 UTC
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

So you became an investment banker with largely passive income, and now snort Drop off of hookers' asses using billion ISK bills?


Sounds like you too watched Wolf of Wall Street.
Saraki Ishikela
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-08-04 15:40:11 UTC
I have 2 accounts, and play casually. I don't mind the monthly subscription fee either. It lets me enjoy the game without worrying about having to earn a set isk value each month.

I keep one character in Faction Warfare, I gladly tank my standings and my security status and don't worry about isk too much. I offset my losses with LP when I can.

I then keep my Exploration Character, when FW is slow, or I'm low on money I happily run Exploration Sites in Low Sec to make isk for my pvp. I still only play maybe 10 hours a week but I get great satisfaction have 2 characters that allow me to different play styles.

One newbies quest to ExploreEVE: [u]Youtube[/u]: www.youtube.com/exploreeve - **[u]**Blogspot:[/u] http://exploreeve.blogspot.com [u]Twitter:[/u] www.twitter.com/exploreeve** - [u]Facebook[/u]:** www.facebook.com/exploreeve
flakeys
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-08-04 15:50:21 UTC
Nose' Feliciano wrote:
If it feels like work, it is no longer a game.

Ive left many games because of this.


I know a lot of men who have left their wives for this ....

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#54 - 2014-08-04 15:52:16 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Nose' Feliciano wrote:
If it feels like work, it is no longer a game.

Ive left many games because of this.


I know a lot of men who have left their wives for this ....

wussies, try parenting

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#55 - 2014-08-04 15:56:40 UTC
Kharaxus wrote:
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:

So you became an investment banker with largely passive income, and now snort Drop off of hookers' asses using billion ISK bills?


Sounds like you too watched Wolf of Wall Jita Street.


Fixed
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#56 - 2014-08-04 16:02:51 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Nose' Feliciano wrote:
If it feels like work, it is no longer a game.

Ive left many games because of this.


I know a lot of men who have left their wives for this ....

wussies, try parenting


unrealted, but hey Ralph,. I got one for you to steal!

http://a.imageshack.us/img35/9530/admin2p.gif

Big smile
Leoric Firesword
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2014-08-04 16:13:36 UTC
I don't grind missions for my monthly plex, I run PI, which while it is a click fest takes ~ 10 or 15 minutes of my time every night, (this is counting the time it takes for me to switch characters and I have an old crappy computer)

actually, I make enough to completely plex my account plus some extra to do silly **** on the side. I do missions when I want to make red x's go boom. I do pvp when I want red x's to make me go boom and it's all really fun
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#58 - 2014-08-04 16:15:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Nose' Feliciano wrote:
If it feels like work, it is no longer a game.

Ive left many games because of this.


I know a lot of men who have left their wives for this ....

wussies, try parenting


unrealted, but hey Ralph,. I got one for you to steal!

http://a.imageshack.us/img35/9530/admin2p.gif

Big smile

ill trade you
http://i.imgur.com/caFCCbF.gif

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-08-04 17:10:36 UTC
I think there is a balance to find.
An easy game without any effort is nothing more than brainless consumption. I find it awfully shallow and vulgar.
But it's just a hobby, i won't let it become excessive.
I enjoy my single account, i pay gladly my 15€ to not have to grind to plex, and i take it serious enough to achieve a few goals i have choosen, but not too serious neither. It's just a game.
Like everything else, a question of balance.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2014-08-04 17:15:14 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
I used to think that games were meant to be escapes, you log in and you let go. The world itself lets you escape into it and you make the game what it is by the experiences you have and the friends you make. Somewhere along the line it seems even a game became a job, with people carrying on multiple accounts, bots, or even using third party services in these massively multiplayer games. When you can't just play a game and let go it seems to become some kind of indentured servitude where you log in just to do things that will hopefully allow you to play the game the way you want and truly enjoy yourself.

I have a passion, a truly great passion deep inside me, and that passion feels deadened by the need to 'work' at something meant to be enjoyed. I feel that it is disturbing when others feel they have to earn their game time just so they can do what they want to do. I get that it is cool to be able to forgo having to pay and therefore play the game free for a set time. However, what is the true cost that is involved when forgoing paying the $15 a month fee to play EVE and build content that will inspire others to just play. The very thought of having to grind to earn Isk and waste away time doing things which are boring sucks to me. Aren't we the game? Aren't the people what make the experience noteworthy and worth it to bother to log in every day? I see you people grinding out missions and carrying out tasks just like you might in real life and seemingly lacking the ability to just let go. What happens in a game when we emulate life inside of it letting it be nothing more then a sheer reflection of who we are as a people? Everyone seeming to run around and do errands as the new player logs in looking for others to play with that are too busy to care.

Can we just let go. I challenge you to let go, let live, and have fun.



Other people enjoy differently.. face it. I woudl cosnider a waste to pay for a gmae and play like you think it shoudl be played.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"