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[UNITY] We The Defiant
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Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#201 - 2014-08-03 14:36:17 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Caldari would never say THIS about greatest Caldari hero. Unless, of course, he was brainwashed by gallenteans, who always try to make Caldari WEAK.

Weaklings, who allow themselves to be brainwashed by gallentean lies about our greatest hero, don't deserve to be called Caldari anymore.


Speaking to you is like having a conversation with YC110, Kim-haani. Don't you get it yet? EVERYONE holds this opinion.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#202 - 2014-08-03 20:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
I finalized a report on Ushra'Khans latest campaign into Imperial territory: Ushra'Khan liberates slaves in Amarr

It does display that Ushra'Khan is a force to be reckoned with. While many would comment that Ushra'Khan wouldn't stand against CVA & PIE in a direct engagement, they are also aware of this, using guerrilla tactics to maximize their succes & minimize enemy interference in their operations.
This combat-tactic allowed them to save a couple of hundred slaves from Amarr space. While this number may sound low to some, keep in mind that these freed slaves have been extracted from deep in Amarr space under difficult circumstances!

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology
Ridha Shakir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2014-08-03 20:54:52 UTC
As a former slave who was rescued by unknown Matari brothers and sisters a few years ago I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to the Ushra'Khan.

A couple of hundred may not sound much, but to each and every one of them this means a new life in freedom!
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#204 - 2014-08-04 00:22:40 UTC
Ridha Shakir wrote:
As a former slave who was rescued by unknown Matari brothers and sisters a few years ago I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to the Ushra'Khan.

A couple of hundred may not sound much, but to each and every one of them this means a new life in freedom!


And deliverance into damnation......

Of all the fool things that could be done..... Ushra'khan chooses to "liberate" those with a real chance of being integrated into the Amarr Empire, undoing the noble efforts of our people to unite humanity.

I praise the efforts of those CVA and Praetorian pilots who struck back at this brazen disregard for the statutes of the Emergency War Powers act and a flagrant attack by a Terrorist organisation masquerading as a representative Militia entity.

These attacks only serve to act as a reminder that all the peoples who comprise the Amarr Empire stand united against those forces that would seek to undermine the peace of the Empress' rule and the Imperial Creed.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#205 - 2014-08-04 08:31:59 UTC
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Ridha Shakir wrote:
As a former slave who was rescued by unknown Matari brothers and sisters a few years ago I would like to express my heartfelt thanks to the Ushra'Khan.

A couple of hundred may not sound much, but to each and every one of them this means a new life in freedom!


And deliverance into damnation......

Of all the fool things that could be done..... Ushra'khan chooses to "liberate" those with a real chance of being integrated into the Amarr Empire, undoing the noble efforts of our people to unite humanity.

I praise the efforts of those CVA and Praetorian pilots who struck back at this brazen disregard for the statutes of the Emergency War Powers act and a flagrant attack by a Terrorist organisation masquerading as a representative Militia entity.

These attacks only serve to act as a reminder that all the peoples who comprise the Amarr Empire stand united against those forces that would seek to undermine the peace of the Empress' rule and the Imperial Creed.


Please define ' integrated into the Amarr Empire'. Being subdued, denied the basic rights to food, water, medical care etc when they do not bow to their masters is not integration, it is servitude.

Everyone in the galaxy knows this, your denial and deflection is quite frankly embarrassing.

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Hyrill Akse
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2014-08-04 09:23:19 UTC
It was a raid like this that freed me. I never got to thank the people involved, I was too young.

I'm just an industrial pilot, for now. Let me know what I can do to help.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#207 - 2014-08-04 10:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Philpip wrote:
Please define ' integrated into the Amarr Empire'. Being subdued, denied the basic rights to food, water, medical care etc when they do not bow to their masters is not integration, it is servitude.


Then bowing down is wiser, isn't it? Disobedience accomplishes nothing but making things harder on yourself, whether you are a slave to a master, or a soldier to a commander, or an employee to a manager. Poor behavior gets punished. A lot more Matari would be free citizens of the Empire by now, instead of slaves, if so many other Minmatar had not been so stubborn and ruined it for the rest of us.

That is what Lieutenant Tyrhanos refers to by integration: joining Amarr society as a free citizen. And even those who are not integrated to that degree do have a home and a purpose as servants; servitude is not a bad thing.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#208 - 2014-08-04 10:52:52 UTC
Nothing "free" about slavery, Samira. Never have been, never will be. How you can keep pretending there's justification for enforced subjugation is utterly beyond me. A soldier can finish his term and leave. An employee can quit and seek employment elsewhere. There is no comparison to slavery because it truly is not the same as civilized hierarchies you keep equating it to.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#209 - 2014-08-04 11:27:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
What I am equating is that no matter what hierarchy you are in you are punished if you disobey that hierarchy, in order to maintain stability and order. Obedience is a positive and necessary part of a civilized society. They are built on that, while they are destroyed by independent and unconstrained thought and action. In Amarr, stability is maintained by ensuring that only those that can be trusted with independence are permitted to have it. Most Minmatar keep being denied it, because so many are so stubborn and hostile. Attacks like Ushra'Khan's only ensure that Matari slaves in the Empire are kept in chains. Chief Midular did a much better job than the Defiants and their supporters in actually improving the opportunities for release and integration for Matari in the Empire, by demonstrating that we can be civil and interacted with positively, but her work has all been undone in the last few years.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#210 - 2014-08-04 11:33:56 UTC
You realize none of the attacks, revolts and "stubborness" would happen if you weren't holding their people enslaved, right? They're being denied freedom because they're "stubborn" and they're being "stubborn" because you are holding them enslaved.

Just release them and be rid of the problem. The State stands ready with highly effective technology and industry solutions to replace your archaic and inefficient slave-fueled economy.

You force that "disobedience". Another hundred years is not going to change this fact.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#211 - 2014-08-04 11:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Soren Tyrhanos
Samira Kernher wrote:
Philpip wrote:
Please define ' integrated into the Amarr Empire'. Being subdued, denied the basic rights to food, water, medical care etc when they do not bow to their masters is not integration, it is servitude.


Then bowing down is wiser, isn't it? Disobedience accomplishes nothing but making things harder on yourself, whether you are a slave to a master, or a soldier to a commander, or an employee to a manager. Poor behavior gets punished. A lot more Matari would be free citizens of the Empire by now, instead of slaves, if so many other Minmatar had not been so stubborn and ruined it for the rest of us.

That is what Ensign Tyrhanos refers to by integration: joining Amarr society as a free citizen. And even those who are not integrated to that degree do have a home and a purpose as servants; servitude is not a bad thing.

Not to sound uppity 1st Lieutenant Kernher.....but that is of recent days Lieutenant Tyrhanos...... and it is with that mark of recognition I shall proudly continue to do the Lord's work.

And I share your sentiments. The historical precedents support your assertions. Most Ni-Kunni were free citizens of the Empire within one or two generations with only those criminals and dissidents remaining a slaves so that they might learn humility.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#212 - 2014-08-04 11:53:19 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
A lot more Matari would be free citizens of the Empire by now, instead of slaves, if so many other Minmatar had not been so stubborn and ruined it for the rest of us.


You should watch this sort of speak, if your elders hear of you suggesting the Matari can be free citizens, you may find yourself given the same 'freedom' in the shape of manacles and chains.

Only an Amarrian would believe their own propaganda, I suggest a break from the warzone and witness the 'freedom' you are providing to the wealthy and the servants you maintain in bondage.

The only free Matari citizens in Amarr are the freedom fighters freeing their brethren.

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#213 - 2014-08-04 12:13:51 UTC
My apologies for the mistake, Lieutenant Tyrhanos. I shall amend my previous post.

Jinari Otsito wrote:
You realize none of the attacks, revolts and "stubborness" would happen if you weren't holding their people enslaved, right? They're being denied freedom because they're "stubborn" and they're being "stubborn" because you are holding them enslaved.

Just release them and be rid of the problem. The State stands ready with highly effective technology and industry solutions to replace your archaic and inefficient slave-fueled economy.

You force that "disobedience". Another hundred years is not going to change this fact.


We aren't their people anymore. We stopped being their people generations ago. The Minmatar were conquered; those of us in the Empire are Amarr now. It happens in the history of nations, not a single one of the four major powers can deny having conquered other peoples and integrated them into their society at some point. After a few generations those subjugated people come to consider their new nation to be their home, not their old one.

The Day of Darkness didn't happen yesterday. The Minmatar in the Empire are not the same people as the Minmatar in the Republic.

Philpip wrote:
You should watch this sort of speak, if your elders hear of you suggesting the Matari can be free citizens, you may find yourself given the same 'freedom' in the shape of manacles and chains.


I already had my own manacles and chains.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#214 - 2014-08-04 12:27:41 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
My apologies for the mistake, Lieutenant Tyrhanos. I shall amend my previous post.

Jinari Otsito wrote:
You realize none of the attacks, revolts and "stubborness" would happen if you weren't holding their people enslaved, right? They're being denied freedom because they're "stubborn" and they're being "stubborn" because you are holding them enslaved.

Just release them and be rid of the problem. The State stands ready with highly effective technology and industry solutions to replace your archaic and inefficient slave-fueled economy.

You force that "disobedience". Another hundred years is not going to change this fact.


We aren't their people anymore. We stopped being their people generations ago. The Minmatar were conquered; those of us in the Empire are Amarr now. It happens in the history of nations, not a single one of the four major powers can deny having conquered other peoples and integrated them into their society at some point. After a few generations those subjugated people come to consider their new nation to be their home, not their old one.

The Day of Darkness didn't happen yesterday. The Minmatar in the Empire are not the same people as the Minmatar in the Republic.

Philpip wrote:
You should watch this sort of speak, if your elders hear of you suggesting the Matari can be free citizens, you may find yourself given the same 'freedom' in the shape of manacles and chains.


I already had my own manacles and chains.

You confuse the ancestors of early slaves with the poor souls still be taken today. The historic brainwashing clearly only works on the weaker minds, while you have clearly been broken to your masters will, not all bow so readily.

You say the Minmatar were conquered? I, and an entire warzone, beg to differ. Tides ebb and flow but at this time, your masters are in retreat, having failed to drive forwards.

You now wear different chains, and are still manipulated into doing the jobs that your masters lack the stomach for. I can see how this can be to their advantage, using your inherent warrior spirit to replace their spineless offspring on the field of battle.

We will continue to answer the call of those who wish to be freed, we come for our people.

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#215 - 2014-08-04 13:03:03 UTC
Yeah, they were "conquered". That's why there's a massive war on and unrest even within your own Empire. Clearly they're very Amarrian if they revolt and remain "stubborn" as you put it. They're not your people as long as they don't want to be.

You can't make anyone Caldari by force. It's a mindset. A culture. A way of life. Genetics. You can't make anyone Amarrian by force either. That's the reason you're embroiled in this utter mess and face countless attacks on a daily basis, from within and without.

Release the people who want out. They clearly aren't Amarrian by even your standards.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#216 - 2014-08-04 13:17:51 UTC
Jinari, I think you have misunderstood slightly, I do not fight for the Caldari, look properly at who I fly with, I am a senior member of Ushra'Khan.

'You can't make anyone Caldari by force. It's a mindset. A culture. A way of life. Genetics. You can't make anyone Amarrian by force either. That's the reason you're embroiled in this utter mess and face countless attacks on a daily basis, from within and without.'

This I do agree with. While on deployment with Dauntless Naval Academy, I saw with my own eyes the atrocities committed towards slaves and I made my stand and chose my path.

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#217 - 2014-08-04 13:31:09 UTC
I was speaking to Sammie, referring to my own State.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#218 - 2014-08-04 13:39:15 UTC
Sorry, it was me that misunderstood. I thought the mention of Caldari was in reference to my heritage.

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#219 - 2014-08-04 17:56:07 UTC
Philpip wrote:
Jinari, I think you have misunderstood slightly, I do not fight for the Caldari, look properly at who I fly with, I am a senior member of Ushra'Khan.

'You can't make anyone Caldari by force. It's a mindset. A culture. A way of life. Genetics. You can't make anyone Amarrian by force either. That's the reason you're embroiled in this utter mess and face countless attacks on a daily basis, from within and without.'

This I do agree with. While on deployment with Dauntless Naval Academy, I saw with my own eyes the atrocities committed towards slaves and I made my stand and chose my path.


Whille I understand and sympathise with your stand against Slavery, I cannot condone your acceptance of your own kind as 'collateral damage' in the fight.

Cold Wind said that we were not to fight our own.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Jinari Otsito
Otsito Mining and Manufacture
#220 - 2014-08-04 18:29:16 UTC
The question becomes when does collateral damage become acceptable damage? Sooner or later, it becomes the lesser evil. You take up arms against your own when you have to, because even greater evils will come to pass if you refrain from doing so. Cold Wind wouldn't be in favor of absolutes.

Prime Node. Ask me about augmentation.