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Bring worm and gila back to reality
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#61 - 2014-08-03 15:13:10 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
the dps on Gila in particular is a little high


And a Serpentis boat with an inbuilt immobilizer and very angry neutron blasters only does 1200dps so its all good and stuff..

I like my Gurista ships and they suit my style of flying very well, well at least until I jump into Tama and my beautiful ship explodes by association or Ishtars or both.


well now you're talking vindi (battleship) so not relevant in terms of cruiser vs cruiser comparison ..
also they should have nerfed 90% webs .. they are so OP its unreal .. personally i would have liked the web mod itself too get nerfed a bit more than necessarily the serpentis hull

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#62 - 2014-08-03 20:13:43 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:
I don't see how the worm is particularly allergic to neuts. Weapons and tank take no cap. Sure your scram does but thats true of all ships. Succubus and to a much lesser extent the daredevil needs to be careful but I am not sure why you say that of the worm
.


Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that.

The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB.

The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite propperly.

I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point?

Quote:
How, pray tell, is a ship with capless weapons and a capless tank 'allergic to neuts'?



Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.



SASB, MASB, LASB, XLASB.

You kind of lost all credibility with that last bit.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-08-03 21:35:57 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
I do not respond to npcs

And rants don't deserve a real response.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#64 - 2014-08-03 21:49:37 UTC
We warned that this would happen. CCP is probably going to fix this in the next ship balancing pass.

The Tears Must Flow
Phaade
Know-Nothings
Negative Feedback
#65 - 2014-08-03 22:20:00 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
We warned that this would happen. CCP is probably going to fix this in the next ship balancing pass.


Like how they are balancing the ishtar right now?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#66 - 2014-08-03 22:23:19 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
We warned that this would happen. CCP is probably going to fix this in the next ship balancing pass.


Like how they are balancing the ishtar right now?


Judging by the Whiptail, I don't see this "fixing" being very likely to happen. Have you looked at that thing? Even if it is an AT prize ship, holy crap.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#67 - 2014-08-04 01:06:59 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Quote:
I don't see how the worm is particularly allergic to neuts. Weapons and tank take no cap. Sure your scram does but thats true of all ships. Succubus and to a much lesser extent the daredevil needs to be careful but I am not sure why you say that of the worm
.


Depending of the Worms fit I suppose would be a better way to put it. But again, the Worm isn't the be all end all. The 350 dps need Augmented Drones, otherwise you get around 300, the 10k buffer tank is tech 2 but it other assault frigates can also run up to that.

The Worm can do a huge amount of DPS with a good tank, but it is slow, a fast micro fitted ship can out run it's drones. The Worm from what I've seen is limited to a AB.

The worm can be counted by a Crow, or a Slicer. Just as long as pilot can kite propperly.

I personally would say if the ships need a nerf, it would be a slight one, maybe keeping the DPS the same, but changing the drone HP bonus? Or limiting the fitting so that only a scram could be fitted rather than the point?

Quote:
How, pray tell, is a ship with capless weapons and a capless tank 'allergic to neuts'?



Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.



SASB, MASB, LASB, XLASB.

You kind of lost all credibility with that last bit.


Yes what you say is obvious to anyone who actually has spent time pvping in this game and has a basic understanding of how the modules work.

If you actually look at the combat record of people claiming the worm and gila are not overpowered compared to the other pirate ships, you will see they had no credibility to lose.

I don't mean that as an insult but allot of people tend to give their opinion when its clear there is no way they know what they are talking about.


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Valkin Mordirc
#68 - 2014-08-04 02:37:39 UTC


Quote:

Since when is a shield tanked ship, capless? Weapons and drones are capless yeah cool, but as soon as your loss your resists, you're 60k tanks suddenly become 18k.



SASB, MASB, LASB, XLASB.

You kind of lost all credibility with that last bit[/quote]



So your shield tank doesn't need resists then aye? Sure you can just rig it, but people don't normally do that. And Adap Invuls tend to suck a lot of cap.


Shield Tanks are meant to be cap intensive. Yeah you can fit your Shields to be capless but then your handicapped. Plus a Gila would need to be built capless, that would be lower resists across the board. Making your Aux Shield booster weaker than it should be...or have I been led astray by EVE knowledge and that active tanks need resists to work?


I've changed my mind about the two ships, a nerf is probably in order.

But I don't understand how you seem to think that something that using an active tank, is going to be cappless. Even if it's using the Aux Boosters. It will need resists from it's Invuls. And A Gila being a shield tanked ship, with it's six mids, will have a hard time, being cap defencive, while maintaining the Tackle need to keep a target on grid. 
#DeleteTheWeak
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#69 - 2014-08-04 03:52:13 UTC
The fact that the Gila is fairly soft against neuts does not mean the ship isn't OP.

It does T1 battleship damage, and can apply it almost as well as a destroyer or frigate, at both point blank and short range, or (with some issues) medium range.

There are other ships that can do comparable damage at point blank range (the Catalyst comes to mind) but they are extreme glass cannons and unable to do anything at medium range, where the Gila still performs well.

The Gila is countered fairly well by interceptors (which can stalemate it but not kill it, but the interceptor controls the engagement) and by neuting ships. Other than that, it dominates against pretty much everything else.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#70 - 2014-08-04 09:16:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Squatdog
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
The fact that the Gila is fairly soft against neuts does not mean the ship isn't OP.

It does T1 battleship damage, and can apply it almost as well as a destroyer or frigate, at both point blank and short range, or (with some issues) medium range.

There are other ships that can do comparable damage at point blank range (the Catalyst comes to mind) but they are extreme glass cannons and unable to do anything at medium range, where the Gila still performs well.

The Gila is countered fairly well by interceptors (which can stalemate it but not kill it, but the interceptor controls the engagement) and by neuting ships. Other than that, it dominates against pretty much everything else.


I am DYING to know how Gila is 'soft against neuts'.

I've killed at least three Curse/Pilgrim 1v1 in a passive-tanked (yes) Gila over the last few years and neuts are barely even an issue if you have a single Nos.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#71 - 2014-08-04 18:03:37 UTC
Look at the 6 month price graph of the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates from serpentis, blood raiders, and angels and compare it to guristas.

The rattlesnake was about the cheapest pirate bs out there. So you would think if the ships were balanced the gurista frigates and cruisers would be cheaper than the pirate cruisers and frigates. (because all the lp would be going to supply them) Yet its the opposite.

Does anyone who knows how modules work believe the worm and gila are not clearly stronger than the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Janice en Marland
Cross Saber Holdings
#72 - 2014-08-04 18:11:44 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Look at the 6 month price graph of the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates from serpentis, blood raiders, and angels and compare it to guristas.

The rattlesnake was about the cheapest pirate bs out there. So you would think if the ships were balanced the gurista frigates and cruisers would be cheaper than the pirate cruisers and frigates. (because all the lp would be going to supply them) Yet its the opposite.

Does anyone who knows how modules work believe the worm and gila are not clearly stronger than the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates?

Do you think the new hull changes and rework of the drone skill points could be a cause of their increased popularity?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#73 - 2014-08-04 18:26:37 UTC
Janice en Marland wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Look at the 6 month price graph of the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates from serpentis, blood raiders, and angels and compare it to guristas.

The rattlesnake was about the cheapest pirate bs out there. So you would think if the ships were balanced the gurista frigates and cruisers would be cheaper than the pirate cruisers and frigates. (because all the lp would be going to supply them) Yet its the opposite.

Does anyone who knows how modules work believe the worm and gila are not clearly stronger than the other traditional pirate cruisers and frigates?

Do you think the new hull changes and rework of the drone skill points could be a cause of their increased popularity?


By hull changes do you mean the bonuses they were given? Yes I do think they are popular because they have overpowered bonuses. The drone changes which made it so they apply more damage also helped make these ships overpowered compared to the serpentis angel and blood raiders ships. It was a combination of factors but I think it was identified that they would be op before the changes, and now its confirmed.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-08-05 04:09:45 UTC
I'm just glad I bought a dozen Worm when they were still 52m each a month before the patch.





...back when I was probably the only person in the entire game regularly using them for PVP.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2014-08-05 05:46:37 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I'm not sure why ccp made these ships so strong. Perhaps they didn't realize how powerful they would be when combined with the buffs to drones.

In a way they are victim of their own success as no one will fight them unless it's bait.

Why not balance them with the other pirate ships? I don't care whether the buff the other pirate frigs and cruisers or nerf the worm and gila or both. But its pretty lopsided right now.

Shoot the Drones. It is simple.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
beatlebutt
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-08-05 06:03:04 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?


He did. He feels that they're overpowered because of the drones, mostly in light of the recent drone buffs.

That's not to say I - or anyone - agree with him, but it should answer your question.


~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.

I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway.


My Gila has 800 DPS. No faction mods unless you count Augmented hammerheads.
Squatdog
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#77 - 2014-08-05 07:17:22 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I'm not sure why ccp made these ships so strong. Perhaps they didn't realize how powerful they would be when combined with the buffs to drones.

In a way they are victim of their own success as no one will fight them unless it's bait.

Why not balance them with the other pirate ships? I don't care whether the buff the other pirate frigs and cruisers or nerf the worm and gila or both. But its pretty lopsided right now.

Shoot the Drones. It is simple.


Against a Worm, this is the single worst thing you could do.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#78 - 2014-08-05 14:06:30 UTC
Squatdog wrote:
I'm just glad I bought a dozen Worm when they were still 52m each a month before the patch.





...back when I was probably the only person in the entire game regularly using them for PVP.



That was a smart buy. I picked up a few myself.

I don't think the pirate frigates have ever been this unbalanced. Even when people said the dramiel was overpowered you could at least kill them with daredevils.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Renee Chanlin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-08-07 11:25:44 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?



LOL you clearly haven't tried to solo a worm.

300% drone damage bonus and hitpoints. I've been able to kill or drive away one of every type of faction frigate in the game.
Having fought 6 different worms, I've never gotten one below about half shields. Their DPS is ridiculous and cannot be tanked for more than about 10 seconds at most by any other frig in the game if they're being flown right. Now, if I see a worm on scan, I run. Or call in at least 5 friends for backup.

The only thing stopping me from training into one properly is the hope that common sense will prevail and the thing will be nerfed, hopefully soon.
Renee Chanlin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2014-08-07 11:30:44 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I'm not sure why ccp made these ships so strong. Perhaps they didn't realize how powerful they would be when combined with the buffs to drones.

In a way they are victim of their own success as no one will fight them unless it's bait.

Why not balance them with the other pirate ships? I don't care whether the buff the other pirate frigs and cruisers or nerf the worm and gila or both. But its pretty lopsided right now.

Shoot the Drones. It is simple.


ROFL. Shoot the drones eh? Thanks for that tip mate. Good luck with it. Post a video when you make it work for you. You'll have about 7 seconds to overcome a 300% hitpoint bonus on EACH DRONE before you find yourself in structure.