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Mission, belt, and gate rats should drop low-tier pirate faction ammo
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ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#1 - 2014-08-03 05:50:18 UTC
Pirate faction rats in missions, in belts, etc currently drop t1 ammo when they die. This is fine I guess, but it's kind of boring. for other modules, you have a chance of getting a meta item, which is better and is more valuable.

And on the other hand, pirate faction ammo is a mess. Nobody ever uses the non-XL sizes outside of maybe the alliance tournament. Part of the reason why it's never used is because it's so rare.

These two problems have the same solution: Make mission, belt, gate, anomaly, and non-overseer deadspace rats drop low-tier pirate faction ammo in place of t1. Any ship that had the possibility of dropping low-tier or high-tier faction ammo will now drop high-tier exclusively.

Benefits:

  • A more healthy market for low-tier pirate faction ammo
  • Less downward pressure on t1 ammo
  • Missions and ratting become more profitable without isk faucets

Drawbacks:

  • Some factions don't have their own ammo, there are no pirate faction missiles for example. Since mordu's legion just got their own ships this could be a good way to introduce mordu's high and low tier faction missiles.
  • Most drops would be just as useless as t1. For example, antimatter is the only commonly used hybrid ammo, so guristas plutonium for example would almost certainly end up being the same price as t1 plutonium. the only way to get around this would be to make antimatter more likely to drop than plutonium. This is a problem with the current drops though. The fact that plutonium S drops from missions right now, combined with its relatively low use, means that it's almost impossible to make a profit manufacturing plutonium S
  • High-tier faction ammo will still be a mess, but the fact that it will drop twice as often will make the offerings on the market a little less sparse. combine this with increased
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#2 - 2014-08-03 07:06:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
And what about the ammo in the LP store for the pirate factions?

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James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#3 - 2014-08-03 07:06:53 UTC
I don't know, I use it for contests in incursions in an arty mach.

Quote:
Some factions don't have their own ammo, there are no pirate faction missiles for example. Since mordu's legion just got their own ships this could be a good way to introduce mordu's high and low tier faction missiles.


This is incorrect, as gurista's have faction missiles in high and low grade.

Quote:
Most drops would be just as useless as t1. For example, antimatter is the only commonly used hybrid ammo, so guristas plutonium for example would almost certainly end up being the same price as t1 plutonium. the only way to get around this would be to make antimatter more likely to drop than plutonium. This is a problem with the current drops though. The fact that plutonium S drops from missions right now, combined with its relatively low use, means that it's almost impossible to make a profit manufacturing plutonium S


This is more of a problem with how rapidly ships can move into ranges where higher DPS, short range ammo is useful on blaster fits, how long optimals are on rails and the insane falloff of projectiles. Lasers commonly use all ammo types because of the instant swapping of crystals. A quick 5 or 10% buff to the longer range ammo types would see significantly more use, but would reduce the reasons to get close.

Quote:
High-tier faction ammo will still be a mess, but the fact that it will drop twice as often will make the offerings on the market a little less sparse. combine this with increased

It is still used in some applications, but like most types of high shiny things is only worthwhile in the proper application. The fact that it is used up means this application is even more restricted though.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#4 - 2014-08-03 07:44:49 UTC
For crystals, I only use scorch, standard, and multi for PVE at least, because I find that it's a huge pain in the ass to shut my lasers off, switch to a shorter range ammo, and turn them back on, only to save like 3 shots. And in pvp, at least the type I engage in, action is moving too quickly to make it worth swapping a 10km optimal for a 12k optimal, vs just getting closer.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
And what about the ammo in the LP store for the pirate factions?


What about it? It clearly isn't being used much now, so becoming less profitable shouldn't be an issue for most people.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#5 - 2014-08-03 10:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
ihcn wrote:
For crystals, I only use scorch, standard, and multi for PVE at least, because I find that it's a huge pain in the ass to shut my lasers off, switch to a shorter range ammo, and turn them back on, only to save like 3 shots.

Then you obviously need to try harder PVE.

But I support this idea to increase the availability of it for myself and other spacerich people.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#6 - 2014-08-03 15:00:28 UTC
I'd like to see the high-tier pirate ammo drop a little more often, too. In the case of laser crystals, for example, it's a complete pain in the ass to get a full set of eight large crystals in multiple types - or even one type, really.

More conventional ammunitions, such as for projectiles, are exceedingly difficult to acquire in useful amounts as well.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#7 - 2014-08-03 15:44:35 UTC
ihcn wrote:
Pirate faction rats in missions, in belts, etc currently drop t1 ammo when they die. This is fine I guess, but it's kind of boring. for other modules, you have a chance of getting a meta item, which is better and is more valuable.

And on the other hand, pirate faction ammo is a mess. Nobody ever uses the non-XL sizes outside of maybe the alliance tournament. Part of the reason why it's never used is because it's so rare.

These two problems have the same solution: Make mission, belt, gate, anomaly, and non-overseer deadspace rats drop low-tier pirate faction ammo in place of t1. Any ship that had the possibility of dropping low-tier or high-tier faction ammo will now drop high-tier exclusively.

Benefits:

  • A more healthy market for low-tier pirate faction ammo
  • Less downward pressure on t1 ammo
  • Missions and ratting become more profitable without isk faucets

Drawbacks:

  • Some factions don't have their own ammo, there are no pirate faction missiles for example. Since mordu's legion just got their own ships this could be a good way to introduce mordu's high and low tier faction missiles.
  • Most drops would be just as useless as t1. For example, antimatter is the only commonly used hybrid ammo, so guristas plutonium for example would almost certainly end up being the same price as t1 plutonium. the only way to get around this would be to make antimatter more likely to drop than plutonium. This is a problem with the current drops though. The fact that plutonium S drops from missions right now, combined with its relatively low use, means that it's almost impossible to make a profit manufacturing plutonium S
  • High-tier faction ammo will still be a mess, but the fact that it will drop twice as often will make the offerings on the market a little less sparse. combine this with increased



Good idea.

I think that NPC rats should also drop BPC's for their ammo with a limited amount of Pirate Ammo such as 200 round BPC for a .5, 150 round BPC for a .6 and 100 round BPC for a .7.

The drops would be very rare and would be on a cycle of around 1000 to 2000 ships destroyed in each system in the belts.
Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2014-08-03 17:27:27 UTC
What I see everyone neglecting to mention is that your common, everyday rat is the scrub of the universe, lower even than an afk highsec ice miner. Why would the pirate orgs spend good money outfitting scrubs that are just going to die anyway?
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#9 - 2014-08-03 19:31:32 UTC
The same reason some rats are fitted with meta 4 modules for some reason?

Ideally, the ammo they drop will be cheaper than empire faction ammo, so it's not like they're going to be pimped out.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#10 - 2014-08-03 22:19:25 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
What I see everyone neglecting to mention is that your common, everyday rat is the scrub of the universe, lower even than an afk highsec ice miner. Why would the pirate orgs spend good money outfitting scrubs that are just going to die anyway?


I have, on more than one occasion, killed belt rats in 0.6 space that drop faction ammo. Judging by that, it would seem the pirate orgs don't mind spending the ISK.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#11 - 2014-08-03 22:21:05 UTC
ihcn wrote:
The same reason some rats are fitted with meta 4 modules for some reason?

Ideally, the ammo they drop will be cheaper than empire faction ammo, so it's not like they're going to be pimped out.


I didn't see it noticed anywhere, but it does seem important to note that if the ammo drops become too commonplace it will completely eradicate the value of empire faction ammo and thus remove a significant portion of Navy LP's value. Low-grade pirate ammo is, after all, better than empire faction ammo.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#12 - 2014-08-04 00:03:23 UTC
Navy ammo is not a driver of LP value (Navy ammo is never close to one of the better things to spend LP on). There are too many people who just buy it because it's easy to sell - those people will swap to +3/4/5 learning implants instead.

I think NPC spawns in general should be fewer in number and tougher - and if that change was made, rats having good ammo would make much more sense.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#13 - 2014-08-04 00:16:53 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

I didn't see it noticed anywhere, but it does seem important to note that if the ammo drops become too commonplace it will completely eradicate the value of empire faction ammo and thus remove a significant portion of Navy LP's value. Low-grade pirate ammo is, after all, better than empire faction ammo.


Navy ammo is strictly better than low-end pirate stuff (e.g. Arch Angel, see below). It's part of why low-end pirate ammo is worthless.

AA EMP S
EM: 9.9
Kin: 1.1
Exp: 2.2

RF EMP S

EM: 10.35
Kin: 1.15
Exp: 2.3

I'm not sure how much it would matter anyway. Navy ammo is cheap enough for most purposes.
ihcn
Life. Universe. Everything.
#14 - 2014-08-04 02:49:50 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
ihcn wrote:
The same reason some rats are fitted with meta 4 modules for some reason?

Ideally, the ammo they drop will be cheaper than empire faction ammo, so it's not like they're going to be pimped out.


I didn't see it noticed anywhere, but it does seem important to note that if the ammo drops become too commonplace it will completely eradicate the value of empire faction ammo and thus remove a significant portion of Navy LP's value. Low-grade pirate ammo is, after all, better than empire faction ammo.

It isn't better. Low pirate is +10%, empire faction is +15%, high pirate is +20%. This is why low pirate ammo would be ideally cheaper than empire faction.