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Too late to the game to matter.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#101 - 2014-08-02 16:40:12 UTC
Also, yoink.
Now it's too late to snip this page too.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#102 - 2014-08-02 17:00:05 UTC
Then again, perhaps the original poster is the smart one.

How often have players moved ahead of the pack, only to have CCP "nerf" everything so everyone will be at a relatively even level playing field?

- Back in the day, the option to learn the "Learning" skill tree so eventually a player will be gaining skill points faster than another that did not train them? "Oh no, can't have that - strip them out and boost everyone!"

- How many players learned various skills through level five and had the hardware, implants, and modules to be faster speed-wise than others? "Oh, ground breaking - better nerf that nano edge!"

- Quite recently, those players that invested ISK and time to boost their blue prints beyond the "perfect" level to give that illusion visual edge that a higher number is better, only to have CCP strip all that out and level everyone at that 10% and 20% level?

As Prince Kobol mentioned above, with five people basically controlling null sec space, let's be honest - you think CCP has the balls to disrupt those people's power sphere? CCP would be fearful those five would tell their underlings to abandon this game and cut their funds. So CCP talks in square circles about how null sec space needs to be fixed while creating videos that a nobody can become that special snowflake. Players gobble that slop up with the hope they too can be the next Mittens.

And once someone reaches that position, he or she too will not want CCP to disrupt that upper echelon while the rest of the unwashed masses get nerfed into mediocrity once again.
RAIN Arthie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2014-08-02 17:04:00 UTC
CCP is the main reason bob couldn't fight back, it's true.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#104 - 2014-08-02 17:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Guttripper wrote:
Then again, perhaps the original poster is the smart one.

How often have players moved ahead of the pack, only to have CCP "nerf" everything so everyone will be at a relatively even level playing field?

- Back in the day, the option to learn the "Learning" skill tree so eventually a player will be gaining skill points faster than another that did not train them? "Oh no, can't have that - strip them out and boost everyone!"

- How many players learned various skills through level five and had the hardware, implants, and modules to be faster speed-wise than others? "Oh, ground breaking - better nerf that nano edge!"

- Quite recently, those players that invested ISK and time to boost their blue prints beyond the "perfect" level to give that illusion visual edge that a higher number is better, only to have CCP strip all that out and level everyone at that 10% and 20% level?
Weeeeeell… let's not forget the fact that none of those things really happened that way.

Learning skills were removed, not to level things out, but to remove a pointless meta-mechanic that made the life of new players miserable for the first couple of months. Nano was removed, not to level things out, but to stop the physics simulation from breaking down and to ensure that more than a handful of ships were viable. “Perfect” blueprints were removed because they were a stupid and unnecessary timesink that benefitted no-one and only confused people, as demonstrated by those who tried to chase “perfect” status on any of them (they also did not level out everyone at 10/20% so it didn't provide a level playing field by default).

So I'd say it has happened, oh, about zero times or so.
Kalishka Ashkulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#105 - 2014-08-02 17:16:00 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Also, yoink.
Now it's too late to snip this page too.


Metagaming FTW Big smile

Why, thank you, Thing!
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#106 - 2014-08-02 17:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
Tom Gerard wrote:
You have to be really smart and really charismatic to do well in this game.

Look at me for instance.Cool

I clicked your signature link :D
Didn't read or notice other thread pages though.
+1

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
iovi Hashur
Pioneer Technologies Inc.
#107 - 2014-08-02 18:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: iovi Hashur
NIFTYGetAtMe wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
I am essentially too late to the game.


No you aren't too late, because with the attitude you've displayed every time you've posted, you could have started on May 1st 2003 and you still would have failed.

That may sound harsh, but it's true, you don't seem to have what it takes mentally. The starkest evidence of this is that you took the time to write all that crap when you could have spent the same amount of time figuring out what your goals are and how to overcome the barriers in your way of achieving those goals....like a real EVE player would.

No one who blames others (or the game) for their failures has ever or will ever succeed in EVE Online. And it is in real life as it is in EVE.

Yeah yeah, OP no patience blah blah blah, sorry I have to jump in at this.
If there is a phrase you should never EVER structure at any point in your entire life, it is "And it is in real life as it is in (videogame)"
No matter how you much you want it to be true, how much you justify it or how hard you defend it, it is literally NEVER true. Real life and videogames are 100% separated and comparing IRL trends/events to simulated trends/events is a grievous offense to humanity. Please separate videogames from life and see them only for what they are: entertainment.
rant over.



+1

And really from what I've seen so far in most games I've played including this one, sadly there are ppl WHO can't really seperate that. I remember a post a couple of months back about traitors to eve for ppl WHO switched games and then came back....ewww

Anyway the thing is that the OP is quite right at some points. I've been playing EvE for like 6 months and I found myself having to WAIT patiently for skills to train so i can do stuff. It get annoying at some point. The thing is to find something else to do. Sadly not all activities scale with sp in eve. And paying for months without playing just to train skills in order to be able to do stuff sucks.

And come on lets be honest. All these "Aaaarg i collect tears I'm imba " and such, let alone miner gankers (not even gonna commnt that) are mostly (99.9999999%) ppl WHO decide to spend their 1-24h they have available to play this game, doing the most dull activity ever. Not talking about serious PvP here. Real PvPers know what i mean (Wow hold your horses there hi-sec camper. You dont do pvp). These are the players WHO cannot set a goal...

And for those that say EvE has always been interesting, come on, the truth....count your alts. Yeah Yeah some are needed to specialise in different areas and so on. This means that at some point you were boed to death waiting for skills to train for different areas of the game so you made an alt. Well some ppl cant afford that. Thats were game gets tiring.

And lets admit it. Any game, no matter how great or not it is, it needs changes. And in the few months im in, although i did see some (Industry mostly) I still think it needs more. And yeah many players dont want eve to change. I for example love that scatter container thing in explo. But then ppl came and requested it gone. In the end most players only think about ISK/Hour. Thats where all the problems start

Oh and one last thing. Cut it out with all the "This game isnt for whiners", "OP is all whine " and stuff. You want the game to get better?? Then we all have to figure out how to bring more players in. Eve has mature Community i heard before i Joined.....Not really. Its just like any other game afterall. You ppl that discourage all these NEW players will be all left in the end. You and your alts. So better start changing your attitude.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#108 - 2014-08-02 18:34:57 UTC
iovi Hashur wrote:
Anyway the thing is that the OP is quite right at some points. I've been playing EvE for like 6 months and I found myself having to WAIT patiently for skills to train so i can do stuff. It get annoying at some point. The thing is to find something else to do. Sadly not all activities scale with sp in eve. And paying for months without playing just to train skills in order to be able to do stuff sucks.

Good news: you never* have to wait — especially not for months — to do stuff in EVE. You can start doing them pretty much right away. Sure, for some things you might need some particular piece of equipment, but it rarely takes more than a couple of minutes to unlock it. The even better news is that no activities scale with SP. It's purposefully designed so that you get increasingly marginal benefits from exponentially larger amounts of training. The activities scale with intelligent application and usage, but that's about it.

* There actually is one thing you have to wait for: capships. The good news here is that there's no reason to train for those before you can already occupy all of your time with far better things.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#109 - 2014-08-02 18:40:52 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Yep, 2 months and I am probably done already.




You are doing it wrong.

This character is not even 7 months old and I do wonderful. I have nothing but fun every single time I log in.

The trick: you need to spec something. In a couple months you can have decent core skills and be really good at ONE or TWO things. Pick something, get good at it, stick with it.

Also, when it comes to PVP - SP is overrated. Sure, in a pure 1 vs 1 on paper fight between two identical ships with identical fittings and players with identical tactics - the one with a bunch more SP is going to win. But it's rarely if ever like that on the field. I've killed players from 2004 in FW in 1 vs. 1 frig fights simply due to better tactics and fittings that were a good countermeasure to their fittings.

Hang in there, man. 2 months is nothing. You gotta be patient for EVE.
iovi Hashur
Pioneer Technologies Inc.
#110 - 2014-08-02 18:42:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Good news: you never* have to wait — especially not for months — to do stuff in EVE. You can start doing them pretty much right away. Sure, for some things you might need some particular piece of equipment, but it rarely takes more than a couple of minutes to unlock it. The even better news is that no activities scale with SP. It's purposefully designed so that you get increasingly marginal benefits from exponentially larger amounts of training. The activities scale with intelligent application and usage, but that's about it.

* There actually is one thing you have to wait for: capships. The good news here is that there's no reason to train for those before you can already occupy all of your time with far better things.


What i meant with waiting and scaling is this. I for example have been using cruisers for pvp/pve. I have skills both cruiser and gunnery etc in 4. now to get into t2 ship+ guns... thats a long time. more than a month.

As for scaling. Take Industry for example. I trained met eff to 5. I could build t1 stuff etc. Lets see what about t2 or t3. Hell some of those are rank 5 skills. Yup takes time to do it, not perfectly, but efficiently within reason. As for caps etc, I already decided a carrier will bethe biggest thing i flhy. I like to be able to dock. ;p
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#111 - 2014-08-02 18:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: DJentropy Ovaert
iovi Hashur wrote:
Not talking about serious PvP here. Real PvPers know what i mean (Wow hold your horses there hi-sec camper. You dont do pvp). These are the players WHO cannot set a goal...


rofl you just said "Real PVPers" lmao

Real pvp = a player engages in combat with another player. PVP = player vs. player. When a player shoots at another player, it's quite real :)

Stop applying your own personal feelings to terms with clear definitions. If you log into EVE, chances are you are engaging in some form of PVP at almost all times, and simply because you don't like some of those forms does not make them less "real" then the ones you do like.

Personally, I find null sec sov grinding boring as hell, wormholes a pain in my ass, and factional warfare just broken and silly. I find roaming around and ganking everything that I can possibly gank in high-sec to be epic fun and much lol. Chances are, we don't agree on this - but this does not make the PVP that either of us engage in less "real" then the other.
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#112 - 2014-08-02 18:48:34 UTC
iovi Hashur wrote:


What i meant with waiting and scaling is this. I for example have been using cruisers for pvp/pve. I have skills both cruiser and gunnery etc in 4. now to get into t2 ship+ guns... thats a long time. more than a month.

As for scaling. Take Industry for example. I trained met eff to 5. I could build t1 stuff etc. Lets see what about t2 or t3. Hell some of those are rank 5 skills. Yup takes time to do it, not perfectly, but efficiently within reason. As for caps etc, I already decided a carrier will bethe biggest thing i flhy. I like to be able to dock. ;p




RE: your crusier skills - what you are missing is that during the climb to a t2 crusier, you will still be getting massive boosts to your t1 crusier. Start off by getting those t2 medium guns, see a instant boost in your t1 crusier dps. Got t2 tank yet? All core skills that apply to at least 4? You get the idea. Chances are that every single skill you will need to spend time on during that month of training is going to result in a tougher t1 crusier while you wait.

Also, a month is nothing. Like, nothing. EVE is about patience!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#113 - 2014-08-02 18:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
YPVP on the other hand is pretty damn exciting and has many elements that are interesting as the challenge changes up depending on the number of ships and their type that you have to face. Yet, I find myself not very good at this and the required number of skills to be proficient can to me get tiring to even bother with.

Join Brave Newbies Inc., and have fun while you learn.

Same for Red Federation and Blue Republic, if you like constant hisec wars instead.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#114 - 2014-08-02 18:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
iovi Hashur wrote:
What i meant with waiting and scaling is this. I for example have been using cruisers for pvp/pve. I have skills both cruiser and gunnery etc in 4. now to get into t2 ship+ guns... thats a long time. more than a month.
…but again, you don't have to wait for months to do things. What you're describing is a choice to occupy yourself with something else (in your case with “waiting”) until you've reached some arbitrary point that you deem sufficient for whatever reason. This in spite of the constant improvements you see along the way that let you do whatever it is you want to do better and better from day 1.

The limitations and waiting you are annoyed by are pretty much entirely by your own creation. You choose to limit yourself and wait. You can choose not to.

Quote:
Take Industry for example. I trained met eff to 5. I could build t1 stuff etc. Lets see what about t2 or t3. Hell some of those are rank 5 skills. Yup takes time to do it
Not really. The skill requirement increase for building T2 is very very tiny compared to the T1 stuff and it all — those rank-5 skills take all of half an hour to get up to the required level (since they don't affect your build efficiency in any way) and your only hump is a rank-1 skill that you will have to suffer through for a horrible, excruciating 4 days.
Lanie Askulf
Doomheim
#115 - 2014-08-02 18:54:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Good news: you never* have to wait — especially not for months — to do stuff in EVE. You can start doing them pretty much right away. Sure, for some things you might need some particular piece of equipment, but it rarely takes more than a couple of minutes to unlock it. The even better news is that no activities scale with SP. It's purposefully designed so that you get increasingly marginal benefits from exponentially larger amounts of training. The activities scale with intelligent application and usage, but that's about it.

* There actually is one thing you have to wait for: capships. The good news here is that there's no reason to train for those before you can already occupy all of your time with far better things.


This.

1. Doing stuff with low sp has never been easier than today. Industry is profitable from day one, as is exploration, as is fw plexing (arguable you don't need a single sp for this), as is flying tackle or basic ewar, suidicde ganking only takes a few days to get into, trading is viable off the bat, etc. etc. There's essentially no part of EVE that doesn't have a plethora of roles a newbie can get into.

2. In my line of work (t1/2 production), a good spreadsheet is worth far more than sp. I have very low sp alts that produce the majority of my items for sale. I've been attempting to acquire a few higher sp industrial alts here lately because I'm planning to go into t3 and capital production, but that isn't for any other reason than I just want to try something new and I have isk to burn.

3. From personal experience living in nullsec and doing CTA operations with my capital alt, I can confidently say that is something newbies should stay the hell away from. It's boring as hell and really just something we vets get forced into when we're trying to hold on to sovreign space. If we didn't absolutely need to lay siege to a tower or sov. structure on a semi-regular basis, we wouldn't do it. Hence all the stagnation in nullsec. Capitals shooting at bazillion sp structures is the last thing anyone wants to do, so newbies not having access to that gameplay isn't something they should be concerned about.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-08-02 19:30:50 UTC
Brave ******* Newbies is the only refutation the OP needs.

OP is not right for EVE, not much of a loss to either.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Bel Tika
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2014-08-02 20:54:28 UTC
OP when you jump into EVE it can be exciting as you delve into all it has to offer, then it can get confusing to understand it and then when you learn the scope of what is in front of you it can be daunting and as you have just posted it can be disheartening and demoralizing to the point of "why should i even start"

Been there done that an worn the T-Shirt so to speak, the thing i found is learn at your own pace, focus on a single thing that interests you, see what it has to offer an work on it an branch from there.

Only 1 out of every 10000 that join/try eve are that special snowflake that will make a huge difference in eve, whether or not you are will be determined on how you treat the game an how you approach it, nothing comes to those who dont try, so it is either give up time or stay an be determined that the game wont beat you.

On a side not, do you think the leader of the CFC would or could be the person he is without the ppl you dont know about? the only reason you know of him is because of the ppl with him, if they left he would just be another ex leader of a failed coalition some time down the line, bit much like all others, an same goes for any coalition leader or any leader of note, they are who they are because of the ppl beside them, the ones you dont know about, the ones in the background grinding the gears keeping it going.


First thing you can do for yourself though is find something you enjoy doing in EVE an take it from there, if there is nothing you enjoy then yes i would just leave because i wouldnt recommend to anyone to continue something they do not enjoy
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#118 - 2014-08-02 22:22:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Heketoro
Doomheim
#119 - 2014-08-03 00:24:20 UTC
Something I find to be a major turn off with this game is the level of elitism found among many of it's players, which can clearly be seen in many of the responses found in this topic.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#120 - 2014-08-03 00:50:19 UTC
Any newbie can research an ammo BPO to ME10 in a few days and make a profit with the new industry system.