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Balancing Feedback: New Tech2 modules

First post First post
Author
Vanturien
Calmarr Connection
#201 - 2011-12-04 10:25:56 UTC
Sigras wrote:
it gets a +5% strength bonus . . .


oops, missed that one. thx. Roll
mine mi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2011-12-04 12:20:02 UTC
Triage T2


All other races apply their bonus when they are in triage, making the T2 module can deploy the fighters
Zarak1 Kenpach1
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2011-12-06 22:46:37 UTC
fighters really are not all that useful for triage ships though. it would be nice to see the module balanced in a more defensive manner. such as the idea for decreased cap or increased local rep.

fighters would have to be told to engage targets or assigned to people in the fleet. the fighters would be a ***** to monitor while repping folks and switching targets to where the dps is being applied.
Sigras
Conglomo
#204 - 2011-12-07 07:47:03 UTC
I agree; with the increased damage of the dreadnaughts, triage carriers could use some additional tank . . . though you risk trivializing supercarriers . . . .
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#205 - 2011-12-07 09:58:42 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I agree; with the increased damage of the dreadnaughts, triage carriers could use some additional tank . . . though you risk trivializing supercarriers . . . .


Irrespective of whether I think carriers need more tank, I don't like the argument that changes shouldn't occur because it might affect the usage of another ship. I'm looking at the arguments around assault frigates in particular.
Sigras
Conglomo
#206 - 2011-12-08 09:17:11 UTC
by that logic, lets make blasters do 30,000 damage per volley and have a 1 second ROF with a range of 200 km and tracking of a frigate autocannon?

all balance changes need to be made with all other ships in mind.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#207 - 2011-12-08 16:07:19 UTC
Hey in there, you are not forgotten, just a bit busy with multiple stuff coming in.

Here are the iteration changes planned for tech2 mods:

  • Triage module II: now provides a 20% capacitor reduction to remote capital armor repairers, remote capital hull repairers, capital shield transfers and capital energy transfers while in triage mode. Doesn't provide any bonus to local repairer/boosters however. Previously the module had little interest to train for, should now be worth the time.

  • Sister core probe launcher and expanded probe launcher: now provide a 10% boost to scan probe strength instead of 5%. That's to keep an appeal for the faction mods despite the arrival of a tech2 version.

  • Skirmish Warfare Link – Interdiction Maneuvers II and Skirmish Warfare Link – Sensor Integrity II: boost increased from 3.5 to 3.75% to keep the tech2 boost consistent among all warfare modules.

  • Information Warfare Link – Electronic Superiority II: boost for Remote Sensor Dampeners and Tracking Disruptors increased from 1.25 to 1.5%. Previous numbers were erroneous.

  • Mining Foreman Link – Mining Laser Field Enhancement II: boost increased from 5 to 5.625%: same reason as above, to keep tech2 boost consistent among all gang links.

  • Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link: tracking and speed multipliers for drones increased from 1.25x to 1.3x, again to keep an interest on the faction variant next to the new tech2 module.

  • Bomb Launcher II: capacity increased from 150 to 225m3, allows it to carry 3 bombs instead of 2.


Feedback is welcome.
Fonac
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2011-12-08 16:42:31 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hey in there, you are not forgotten, just a bit busy with multiple stuff coming in.

Here are the iteration changes planned for tech2 mods:
[list]
  • Triage module II: now provides a 20% capacitor reduction to remote capital armor repairers, remote capital hull repairers, capital shield transfers and capital energy transfers while in triage mode. Doesn't provide any bonus to local repairer/boosters however. Previously the module had little interest to train for, should now be worth the time.


  • Mining Foreman Link – Mining Laser Field Enhancement II: boost increased from 5 to 5.625%: same reason as above, to keep tech2 boost consistent among all gang links.


  • Feedback is welcome.


    1st - Triage, the 20% cap reduction is awesome, but maybe a little over the top?

    Instead of a cap reduction, to your remote abilities, i think it would be better, if it improved your local tank instead. Carriers still get pwned by Supers, and now dreads which does even more damage, are an even greater threat to Carriers.

    Of course improving your efficieny on your remote ability, by saving cap, indirectly helps your local tank aswell, because you will have more cap to rep yourself for, but you will still melt to the dps pretty fast.

    TLDR; improve local tank... maybe make a 50/50 improvement, with 10% cap reduction to RR, and 10% more armor repped per cycle on your local tank....


    2nd point -

    No one gives a **** about the range on the mining lasers, i believe you ment Mining Foreman link - Laser optimization instead. that would be helpfull atleast.







    Zarak1 Kenpach1
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #209 - 2011-12-08 16:43:37 UTC
    wow, these changes are incredible! thanks for listening.

    do you know what tallest has been up to in regards to his two areas of balancing?
    Gypsio III
    Questionable Ethics.
    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
    #210 - 2011-12-08 16:47:50 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Skirmish Warfare Link – Interdiction Maneuvers II and Skirmish Warfare Link – Sensor Integrity II: boost increased from 3.5 to 3.75% to keep the tech2 boost consistent among all warfare modules.

  • Balance >>> consistency.

    Interdiction manouevres is already good enough and does not need to be more powerful. Also, wtf is "Skirmish Warfare Link – Sensor Integrity II"?
    Dramaticus
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #211 - 2011-12-08 16:48:22 UTC
    Fonac wrote:

    1st - Triage, the 20% cap reduction is awesome, but maybe a little over the top?

    Instead of a cap reduction, to your remote abilities, i think it would be better, if it improved your local tank instead. Carriers still get pwned by Supers, and now dreads which does even more damage, are an even greater threat to Carriers.

    Of course improving your efficieny on your remote ability, by saving cap, indirectly helps your local tank aswell, because you will have more cap to rep yourself for, but you will still melt to the dps pretty fast.

    TLDR; improve local tank... maybe make a 50/50 improvement, with 10% cap reduction to RR, and 10% more armor repped per cycle on your local tank....


    You won't really melt, you'll simply disappear and arrive in cloning. There is no local tank for supercapitals on grid with you.

    The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

    The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

    Fonac
    Imperial Academy
    Amarr Empire
    #212 - 2011-12-08 17:01:49 UTC
    Dramaticus wrote:
    Fonac wrote:

    1st - Triage, the 20% cap reduction is awesome, but maybe a little over the top?

    Instead of a cap reduction, to your remote abilities, i think it would be better, if it improved your local tank instead. Carriers still get pwned by Supers, and now dreads which does even more damage, are an even greater threat to Carriers.

    Of course improving your efficieny on your remote ability, by saving cap, indirectly helps your local tank aswell, because you will have more cap to rep yourself for, but you will still melt to the dps pretty fast.

    TLDR; improve local tank... maybe make a 50/50 improvement, with 10% cap reduction to RR, and 10% more armor repped per cycle on your local tank....


    You won't really melt, you'll simply disappear and arrive in cloning. There is no local tank for supercapitals on grid with you.




    Somehow, that just doesn't sounds balanced to me.. ;)

    Two step
    Aperture Harmonics
    #213 - 2011-12-08 17:03:50 UTC
    I would much rather see T2 triage give a local tanking boost. Especially with the Moros boost, triage carriers are a lot more vulnerable to dreads now, and the long train for T2 triage should reduce that.

    CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

    Daedalus Arcova
    The Scope
    #214 - 2011-12-08 17:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
    mine mi wrote:
    Triage T2, why not remove the inability to deploy fighters?

    Why not just remove the inability to deploy fighters from Triage mode altogether? Carriers need some love, and I'm not sure how the dps of 9 or 10 fighters would really unbalance things.

    Agree with others calling for a local rep boost for T2 Triage.
    Mimiru Minahiro
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #215 - 2011-12-08 17:50:00 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Hey in there, you are not forgotten, just a bit busy with multiple stuff coming in.

    Here are the iteration changes planned for tech2 mods:

    • Triage module II: now provides a 20% capacitor reduction to remote capital armor repairers, remote capital hull repairers, capital shield transfers and capital energy transfers while in triage mode. Doesn't provide any bonus to local repairer/boosters however. Previously the module had little interest to train for, should now be worth the time.

    • Sister core probe launcher and expanded probe launcher: now provide a 10% boost to scan probe strength instead of 5%. That's to keep an appeal for the faction mods despite the arrival of a tech2 version.

    • Skirmish Warfare Link – Interdiction Maneuvers II and Skirmish Warfare Link – Sensor Integrity II: boost increased from 3.5 to 3.75% to keep the tech2 boost consistent among all warfare modules.

    • Information Warfare Link – Electronic Superiority II: boost for Remote Sensor Dampeners and Tracking Disruptors increased from 1.25 to 1.5%. Previous numbers were erroneous.

    • Mining Foreman Link – Mining Laser Field Enhancement II: boost increased from 5 to 5.625%: same reason as above, to keep tech2 boost consistent among all gang links.

    • Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link: tracking and speed multipliers for drones increased from 1.25x to 1.3x, again to keep an interest on the faction variant next to the new tech2 module.

    • Bomb Launcher II: capacity increased from 150 to 225m3, allows it to carry 3 bombs instead of 2.


    Feedback is welcome.



    When?
    Jack Dant
    The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
    #216 - 2011-12-08 18:24:03 UTC
    I'm inclined to agree with the local tank boost for T2 triage.

    If you think about it, there are two ways to break a triage carrier. Enough neuts, or enough dps. Of those, the neut option seems more tactical, and so should be encouraged, not made harder.

    What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

    Aamrr
    #217 - 2011-12-08 18:29:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aamrr
    Triage desperately needs a tanking boost to protect them from the newly buffed dreadnoughts. The added protection against supercapitals is also very welcome.

    Massed subcapitals will still kill them by neutralization pressure, so giving them stronger tank shouldn't negatively balance the subcapital-capital interaction. This is a lucky scenario where you can buff something against one opponent without unbalancing them against other predators. Take advantage of it! Big smile

    Edit: Perhaps going from a 200% bonus to 235%? That'd be about a 17.5% increase to their tank, exactly equal to the change from T1 siege to T2. Considering that Dreads and Carriers were reasonably well balanced before the change, this should maintain that.

    Of course, you also buffed the T1 siege module by 10% relative to the old one, so you might want to take that into consideration while you're at it...
    Sigras
    Conglomo
    #218 - 2011-12-08 19:20:03 UTC
    Im also inclined to agree with the need to buff local tanks against the newly buffed dreads, and I think a buff to 235% would do it because the 10% buff to the T1 siege module was just to compensate for the lack of drones.

    That being said, this change wouldnt effect its balance against large subcap fleets especially if the buff was in the form of rep speed not rep amount (less cap efficient), or titans; the only thing I would be concerned about is the balance to supercarriers, but I suppose supercarriers arent supposed to be flown without a support fleet anyway, and we can just assume that includes the odd neut bhaalgorn or two.
    FlameGlow
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #219 - 2011-12-08 19:35:48 UTC
    No boost to local repair amount in triage will save you, say it is boosted well maybe you'll be able to tank 2 SCs or 3 dreadnoughts, so what? These days many corporations, not even alliances, can field that.
    Capacitor consumption on remote reps is a great bonus on the other hand - you might be able to run 3 reps for the whole triage cycle with that without devoting all slots to cap recharge mods.
    Two step
    Aperture Harmonics
    #220 - 2011-12-08 19:46:53 UTC
    FlameGlow wrote:
    No boost to local repair amount in triage will save you, say it is boosted well maybe you'll be able to tank 2 SCs or 3 dreadnoughts, so what? These days many corporations, not even alliances, can field that.
    Capacitor consumption on remote reps is a great bonus on the other hand - you might be able to run 3 reps for the whole triage cycle with that without devoting all slots to cap recharge mods.


    It matters in places like w-space, where people can't drop dreads and supercaps willy-nilly.

    CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog