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Gallente and Amarr ship disbalance

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-08-01 11:30:34 UTC
David Koen wrote:


May be you are good at pvp but you do not realize the whole picture of how stuff works here.


I never said I'm good, I said you are terrible, and don't know what you're talking about. In order to be a good analyst, you need to know what you're talking about, starting with not making assumptions. You assume I don't know the 'whole picture', but I know you don't have any of it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hicksimus
Torgue
#42 - 2014-08-01 11:33:11 UTC
I'd rather see them buff some Amarr ships than nerf their Gallente counterparts because if they nerf Gallente we'll all be back in Hurricanes and Drakes next week just like we were such a long time ago.

Recruitment Officer: What type of a pilot are you? Me: I've been described as a Ray Charles with Parkinsons and a drinking problem.
Valkin Mordirc
#43 - 2014-08-01 12:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Quote:
I agree to you Minmatar ships are not bad, Slepnir is quite good, they have like Gallente big drones bandwidth to carry sentries and plenty of turrets. But Caldary and Amarr have much less good ships. Caldari cannot carry enough drones and Amarr is limited mostly to lasers. They have some descent ships like vengeance and Armageddon which are not very bad, but again Dominix and ishkur are still better.

For example, let's compare T1 battleships.
Gallente T1 battleships have big drone bays and many turrets, you have a choice between having more turrets or drones. If you choose Dominix you get great increase in sentry range, if you choose Hyperion you still get 5 sentries with turrets and armor repair boosts. You have no problems with long range weapons, rails are perfect, reasonable capasitor use, heavy damage and long range.

If you play Amarr you have no choice other then Armageddon, cause Abaddon and Apocaipse are just crap, their drone bays are small, so no room for 5 sentries. They have capacitor problems,they have no descent long range weapons cause beam lasers are double crap. The only fit possible to Apocalypse and Abaddon is just medium drones with pulse lasers, which is kinda gimp for pvp. Armageddon is better but still cannot compete with Dominix and Hyperion, dps is just lower, less points for turrets, no turret bonuses and drone bonuses are not as good as Dominix has.



Here's a list of good Caldari ships.

Merlin and AF variants,
Condor and interceptor's, the Crow is actually regarded as THE best interceptor in game.
The Moa has a F*** you I'm a Moa Tank, The Eagle is admittedly meh,
The Caracal is a frigs nightmare, The Cerb is a Frig fleets hell,
The osprey is a great chained fleet logi, so goes for it's T2 counterpart
The Blackbird is ECM, Can't really say much else, ECM damnit.
Ferox is a great Blaster boat, And it's command ship is a fantastic sniper boat.
The Drake is still one of the most widely used mission ships,
The Naga is considered the best sniper in game.
The Rokh is the second best sniper in game,
The Raven is the best missioning battleship in game,
The Scorp is giant middle finger of ecm

How is Caldari bad for PvP? Or underbalanced in general?

And don't you talk crap on the Arm, You seem to be putting way more pressure on DPS, without considering everything else. For one, there is no pilot in EVE who would fit Rails on a hyperion for PvP. They would Ion blaster and triple rep it. Next off, and Armageddon would destroy a hype. You go know what neutralizers are right?

Cap warfare

Next off, WHY would an UNbonused ship have the same drone properties of a DRONE bonused ship?

Lastly,

The **** is wrong with you?
#DeleteTheWeak
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2014-08-01 12:56:21 UTC
Hicksimus wrote:
I'd rather see them buff some Amarr ships than nerf their Gallente counterparts because if they nerf Gallente we'll all be back in Hurricanes and Drakes next week just like we were such a long time ago.


Amarr don't need a buff.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-08-01 12:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hiply Rustic
David Koen wrote:


To be a good football analyst you do not need to play football yourself.



This is true...but it helps to not be that sports analyst who swears Tim Tebow really is the second coming of Fran Tarkenton.

Here's a tip for all you would-be sportcasters in the audience...when you state an opinion and have the guys who actually play the game tell you you're wrong, you should either defer to them or start making your living doing something else.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Grim Hood
Kingsparrow Wormhole Division
Birds of Prey.
#46 - 2014-08-01 14:31:05 UTC
Why pick Amarr? Because laz0rz.

'Nuff said.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#47 - 2014-08-01 15:06:10 UTC
Op, you might not be aware but you are in fact arguing with some of the most adjective and Knowledgeable players who could be arsed to post here.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Efernal
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-08-01 16:08:39 UTC
Amarant'h wrote:
David Koen wrote:






Nonsense. And by the way, there is no overpowered ships, there is just too much people uncapable of using their brains or not enough skill(points). Every single ship has its weaknesses. Or how do you explain the fact that you see dead Gallente ships around?



I'll call Code out on that one.
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-08-01 16:33:42 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I recently discovered the Arbitrator and Optimal Range Disruption in conjunction with a defensive web. It works especially well against (slowish) short range blaster boats... such as the Thorax, Talos and Brutix. Lol

The same goes for its small brother, the Crucifier, actually.
This dirt cheap little ship is so insidious and apt to ruin somebody's day that I am usuallly giggling like an idiot when flying one.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Boyamin
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-08-01 16:39:45 UTC
The Tristan is good in FW, because you often have contact within 4km, you can have your drones out when defending, and if you are neut fit, the other guy has to make range while you apply drones.

In null/ hi-sec wars, soloing with on and off grid separation, I personally don't think it's as good, because as someone else said, you either fit for speed or tank, applying drones on a kiting target is somewhat ineffective, if someone gets a scram while you have your drones in you've lost a good 4-5 seconds of dps, and if you need to warp to a buddy/target 150km+ away, waiting for your drones is usually a pretty lame (read noob) option.

Gallente pilots have some pretty terrible but common fits. The FW cookie cutter double rep incursus is perhaps even worse than a punisher, even though no one admits it. The 3xneut tristan with a cap booster instead of a web is almost as bad. I think gallente frigates/dessies are easier to fly, amarr frigs/dessies need a bit more practice.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#51 - 2014-08-01 16:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
A few years ago Gallente was a huge joke. Many a Gallente ship went down being scrammed and webbed to a slow crawl trying to slowboat to blaster range while being smoked by HM Drakes and anything (EVERYTHING) else with cruise missiles.

So everybody complained.


Now this.

What's it going to be then?


And when all ships are the same with only appearance being the difference then everybody will complain.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#52 - 2014-08-01 16:46:38 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


And when all ships are the same with only appearance being the difference then everybody will complain.

assuming anyone is still about

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#53 - 2014-08-01 16:52:45 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
A few years ago Gallente was a huge joke. Many a Gallente ship went down being scrammed and webbed to a slow crawl trying to slowboat to blaster range while being smoked by HM Drakes and anything (EVERYTHING) else with cruise missiles.

So everybody complained.



I was the only guy in all of the CFC and possibly the only snowflake in null who flew the mega in pvp on a regualr basis. Fun timesBig smile
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#54 - 2014-08-01 16:53:04 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Gallente ships in general have the highest dps, they have plenty of drones and almost the same amount of turrets as other fractions.


Would you prefer Gallente to have 2/3 as many weapons as other fractions, or would you rather have them underpowered by a larger percentage?

David Koen wrote:
but drones have no counters.


Hmm.. you can shoot and kill drones, and you can only carry a limited amount of drones, and once youre out of drones you cant refill your bay in space.. but you cant shoot a laser beam with another weapon.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#55 - 2014-08-01 17:12:16 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
David Koen wrote:
Gallente ships in general have the highest dps, they have plenty of drones and almost the same amount of turrets as other fractions.


Would you prefer Gallente to have 2/3 as many weapons as other fractions, or would you rather have them underpowered by a larger percentage?

David Koen wrote:
but drones have no counters.


Hmm.. you can shoot and kill drones, and you can only carry a limited amount of drones, and once youre out of drones you cant refill your bay in space.. but you cant shoot a laser beam with another weapon.


I'll also point out, the first thing I do in an engagement is counter your drones.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#56 - 2014-08-01 17:50:41 UTC
Moving this from General Discussion to Features and Ideas.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#57 - 2014-08-01 17:55:47 UTC
Roflsaures Rex wrote:
noob


So much can be said, but this guy managed to sum it all up in a single word.
Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#58 - 2014-08-01 20:24:42 UTC
David Koen wrote:

but drones have no counters.


Drones have a counter, it's called SHOOTING THEM! Nothing like offlining your opponets weapons. Also you can use EWAR on drones too.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2014-08-01 20:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
It's true that pretty much every Gallente ship is strong at PVP whereas some Amarr ships are either bad or extremely specialized.

Basicaly amarr Laser ships are best suited to larger engagement due to their lack of mid.
Their Buffer tank bonus also shine in larger engagement with logi support.
Amarr drone ships are a mid of EWAR and damage versus full gank for gallente, hence Gallente are often prefered.
The fact that TD only affect turret ship doesn't help.

Amarr ships are also kind of one trick pony (= easy to counter) whereas the gallente usual versatile slot layout allow them to be good for a lot of things, be it brawl, kite, shield tank, armor tank, etc.

Lot of Amarr ship still have the useless "laser capacitor consumption" bonus, this doesn't help.

And lets face it, drones are currently a formidable weapon system, especialy Sentry drones.

Top 10 ships on zkillboard : Surprise, the only Amarr ship is a Missile ship !
Crow 10,641
Sabre 7,702
Ishtar 6,732
Stiletto 6,405
Malediction 5,827
Proteus 4,815
Thrasher 4,680
Loki 4,674
Capsule 3,963
Caracal 3,942



Netan MalDoran wrote:
David Koen wrote:

but drones have no counters.


Drones have a counter, it's called SHOOTING THEM! Nothing like offlining your opponets weapons. Also you can use EWAR on drones too.

By he time you're done shooting the flying drones (assuming you can track them), and the reserve drones, you're often either long dead or well into low armor/structure.

It's pretty much as usefull as using defender or smartbomb against incoming missiles.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-08-02 00:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Odithia wrote:

By he time you're done shooting the flying drones (assuming you can track them), and the reserve drones, you're often either long dead or well into low armor/structure.

It's pretty much as usefull as using defender or smartbomb against incoming missiles.


Well that's just not true at all. As a rather formidable Ishkur pilot, I can tell you straight up that without it's drones, a drone boat becomes substantially less versatile. There are circumstances where you can ignore the drones, but absent those circumstances, ignoring drones can be suicidal, especially if you're a frigate pilot.

I fought a fifteen-minute duel with Blade VII when I was quite a bit noobier than I am now - his Enyo vs my Ishkur. Yes, it really was a frigate fight that took fifteen minutes. There was a lot of actual piloting taking place. In the end, he won, because he spent much of the fight going after my drones, and I spent much of it recalling and redeploying. I personally learned a lot from that fight, which is why I encourage others to get out there and learn, especially prior to commenting on the forums and saying something silly like "shooting drones is useless".

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104