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Plex Utility Rate?
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Ceren Luthian
Onslaught Inc
#1 - 2011-12-08 15:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceren Luthian
Does anyone have any speculation at what % of PLEX reserves are held as a currency denomination/inflation hedge, what % for speculation, and what % is held intending to use it in the next month or so?

My assumption: most people who own more than one PLEX own MANY more than one. In reality you can only USE just one in any one month. I wonder what is the position of anyone who wants to use one PLEX in the next month or two. Do you not buy until you are going to use it? Or do you buy a few when the market dips reducing the pool of usable PLEX?

I'm thinking, if there would is a pool of available PLEX out there that is serving either as a hedge or speculative reserve, this is harming the average person who is looking to use PLEX for its intended value.

I'm thinking about creating 'non-profit' corporate vehicle that could act as a release valve for this tension directing speculation away from plex, and into some other high-value/low volume/high utility good.

I'm thinking you could design an efficient exchange that would essentially trade PLEX for a 'GOOD'. It would use a natural log function to value the PLEX in relation to a base value+amount of GOOD in the hangar of the corp. It would buy the GOOD from the market at a constant rate of its 100% reprocessed market value. So ideally a high value ore would be good here. It would also make contract exchanges for PLEX>GOOD or GOOD>PLEX as long as there was some of each in the hangar. Also, an intention of the exchange would be to grow in size so once the exchange reached a certain size, ex. 2B in value, then if either side of the exchange made up more than 75% of the total value of the exchange, that side would be liquidated. Profits would be use to pay some employees, but mostly to equalize these two goods inside the hold of the exchange.

The exchange would be run by a council with equal members voting in proportion to their share they donate to seed the exchange.

Is there a use for such a thing like this as a non-profit corp in EVE?
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
#2 - 2011-12-08 15:49:17 UTC
Ceren Luthian wrote:


I'm thinking, if there would is a pool of available PLEX out there that is serving either as a hedge or speculative reserve, this is harming the average person who is looking to use PLEX for its intended value.


While your claim might be so, I don't have a problem with that. I don't see the need for this non-profit. Having said that, I don't see the harm in it either. Knock yourself out.
Ceren Luthian
Onslaught Inc
#3 - 2011-12-08 15:51:29 UTC
http://www.landoflyrics.com/thegoods/manifesto.php this is where i got the idea, from another MMO I used to play.
Ilinea
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-12-08 15:52:51 UTC
Ceren Luthian wrote:
Does anyone have any speculation at what % of PLEX reserves are held as a currency denomination/inflation hedge, what % for speculation, and what % is held intending to use it in the next month or so?


How should anyone have any of those numbers, that are not based on pure assumptions and guesses? And seriously, if I had that kind of information it would be so valuable, I would not post it here.

Quote:

I'm thinking, if there would is a pool of available PLEX out there that is serving either as a hedge or speculative reserve, this is harming the average person who is looking to use PLEX for its intended value.


You don't have to use PLEX.

Quote:

I'm thinking about creating 'non-profit' corporate vehicle that could act as a release valve for this tension directing speculation away from plex, and into some other high-value/low volume/high utility good.

I'm thinking you could design an efficient exchange that would essentially trade PLEX for a 'GOOD'. It would use a natural log function to value the PLEX in relation to a base value+amount of GOOD in the hangar of the corp. It would buy the GOOD from the market at a constant rate of its 100% reprocessed market value. So ideally a high value ore would be good here. It would also make contract exchanges for PLEX>GOOD or GOOD>PLEX as long as there was some of each in the hangar. Also, an intention of the exchange would be to grow in size so once the exchange reached a certain size, ex. 2B in value, then if either side of the exchange made up more than 75% of the total value of the exchange, that side would be liquidated. Profits would be use to pay some employees, but mostly to equalize these two goods inside the hold of the exchange.


Can I have some of the stuff you are smoking? It seems to be damn good stuff lol
I didn't understood really what you want to do, but still it became clear this is sooo unrealistic...

They told me to mine... and I started to mine, the market ;)
Ceren Luthian
Onslaught Inc
#5 - 2011-12-08 16:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceren Luthian
Ilinea wrote:

You don't have to use PLEX.


I appreciate the strong support for the status quo in the game and all of the whining at CCP that people do without doing anything about it themselves.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-12-08 16:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
(a) the different objectives you list are not mutually exclusive.
I might hold several PLEX that I intend to use for gametime unless the PLEX market spikes before I need them.
That's certainly a better strategy than applying several months worth of gametime to my account directly after buying the PLEXes.

(b) To be honest I don't understand the "It would use a natural log function to value the PLEX in relation to a base value+amount of GOOD in the hangar of the corp" part of your proposal.
Can you please give an example and explain the rationale for this?
I understand the general idea of of using stocks of PLEX and GOOD to smooth market movements (although any such attempt would be unfeasible given the size of the PLEX market).
How do you determine which price is the "real" PLEX price that would exist without speculation, hoarding, ... ?

(c) A Tale in the Desert is basically the opposite of EVE in almost every respect imaginable (aside from both being sandboxy niche MMOs).
The game is extremely cooperative from a social PoV, lacks a decent market & currency and encourages vertical integration of gathering/production (due to low player numbers, lack of market, etc). Look at someone the wrong way and you'll get banned/driven away by the community itself.
I'd generally advise to be very careful when trying to transfer experiences from one game to the other.
Ceren Luthian
Onslaught Inc
#7 - 2011-12-08 17:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceren Luthian
Florestan Bronstein wrote:

(b) To be honest I don't understand the "It would use a natural log function to value the PLEX in relation to a base value+amount of GOOD in the hangar of the corp" part of your proposal.
Can you please give an example and explain the rationale for this?
.


That link is the best I have right now. I'll have a little time this afternoon to work out a scenario, but look at the 'Pricing Explained' page on that link and it would work in a somewhat similar manner. I'll write up more this afternoon when i get a chance. I know ATITD is quite different than EVE, but the supply/demand market principle may be able to be translated.

Also as to 'why'...I think, if done correctly...could kind of be how the yuan has been/used to be artifically pegged against the dollar or similar to the Linked Exchange: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_exchange_rate) in Hong Kong or a manged float practiced throughought the developing world. The mechanism would hopefully push the volatility of the PLEX market into whatever market the "GOOD" is made of.

That link above is the best I have right now. I'll have a little time this afternoon to work out a scenario, but look at the 'Pricing Explained' page on that link and it would work in a somewhat similar manner. I'll write up more this afternoon when i get a chance. I know ATITD is quite different than EVE, but the supply/demand market principle may be able to be translated.

If you are PRO PLEX volatility/inflation than this is not a good idea. If you are anti-volatility than it may make more sense. I think its biggest See . If you are PRO PLEX volatility/inflation than this is not a good idea. If you are anti-volatility than it may make more sense. I think its biggest See
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2011-12-09 06:36:32 UTC
OK a few thoughts.

First off the plex commodity trade is massive. The plex trade is by far the largest trade in the game by value. Unless you received massive support from a large number of very rich players you could not possibly get enough plexes to control the price.

Regarding plex buying I tend to buy mine as I need them. If the price is high I'll wait a week or two, I always keep a few weeks game time in hand.

I'm not sure that it's true that people who speculate on plex all own many more than one. Plex buy orders are around 411m, it's very likely that they may at some point spike over 450m again making them a very attractive investment for lazy or amateur traders. (Certainly much better than leaving 411m in your account as liquid isk you don't need). Anyone can play the plex market it's the simplest way to trade in Eve and close to bullet-proof.

There certainly is a speculative reserve and it certainly is pushing prices up. However the only way you could remove that reserve is by buying it at premium prices. No one can afford to do that.

Your non-profit vehicle simply wouldn't affect the market. Worse you'd be asking people to invest in something that intends to make no profit.

Finally anyone with access to a stockpile is potentially going to steal it. If this was your intention when you started this thread then B+ for effort but try again. If it wasn't then there's no way you would want to be in a pool with 20 random Eve players any one of whom can walk off with a hundred plex. Nor would 19 Eve players all trust you with 100 plex.

Regarding data we have hard data up to July 2009 from a dev blog. It's perhaps not unreasonable to surmise the lines on the graph continued during 2010 and 2011 on more or less the same vector (possibly dipping in the last 6 months due to the Incarna crisis). There were 16k plex in stockpiles in Aug 2009.
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=684

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#9 - 2011-12-09 08:24:30 UTC
Ilinea wrote:

How should anyone have any of those numbers, that are not based on pure assumptions and guesses? And seriously, if I had that kind of information it would be so valuable, I would not post it here.

Can I have some of the stuff you are smoking? It seems to be damn good stuff lol
I didn't understood really what you want to do, but still it became clear this is sooo unrealistic...



This is what I am thinking as well