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Gallente and Amarr ship disbalance

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David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-08-01 03:37:01 UTC
At the current state of the game one faction have much better ships for pvp than others, this faction is Gallente. Gallente has much better pvp ships than others, whilst Amarr has the worst.

Gallente ships in general have the highest dps, they have plenty of drones and almost the same amount of turrets as other fractions. It would be ok if they have the dps only advantage but at the same time they also have the best tank. Due to descent amount of mid slots gellente ships can put cap charger and play with two armor repairs.

This game is about if some ship have best dps it should have not the best speed and tank, but Gallente usually have best dps, tanks, speed and electronic warfare at the same time.

Just look at comparison, for example T1 frigates where tristan is by far the best T1 frigate and does not have any counters between T1 frigates. Tristan has the highest dps of all T1 frigates. It has 2 turrets and 5 drones. Other T1 frigates have usually 3 turrents, you know 5 drones is much better than 1 additional turret. In terms of speed Tristan is faster than most damage dealing frigates and close to fast kiters like condor.

If we look at other gallente ships the situation is the same Comet is the best navy frigate, best pvp cruisers are again Thorax and vexor, best T2 cruiser is Ishtar, best AF is against ishkur and enyo. Everythere except ship design Gallente has best ship stats.

Many Amarr ships at the same time have only 2 mid slots, this make them kinda loosers in most pvp situations. Also lasers have too many strong counters like tracking disruptors or energy neutralisers, but drones have no counters.

Generally speaking Gallente ships needs a global reduction stats, first of all drone bandwidth and amount of turret slots and little bit speed to the same level as other factions.

Amarr ships needs more mid slots and something needs to be done with lasers, like less energy consumption and better tracking. Also would be nice to get more speed to amarr ships.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-08-01 03:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentamon
Your head is pointy. Were you wearing a pointed hat?

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Valkin Mordirc
#3 - 2014-08-01 03:46:29 UTC
This should have been posted in F&I, not GD.

Next, Amarr isn't the worst, nor Caldari, or any other race. Yeah The DPS blaster boats of the Gallente are get a lot of DPS for what? Damage Application is short, and Drones won't won't take down another ship unless the ship using the drones is bonused for drones.

Amarr also gets some of the best buffer tanks in the game, they have the best Logi ship in game, and they also have access to the best ships for neut's. They are great for POS bashing, they also have the BEST tracking weapons for long range.

You are looking at pure dps, but not at anything else. A Slicer could and does easily out kite a comet. So sorry, but your opinions are invalid.

You've also been playing for 20 days. I really think you need to learn more about how ships work before you come out with ideas.
#DeleteTheWeak
Roflsaures Rex
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2014-08-01 04:19:08 UTC
noob
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2014-08-01 04:22:04 UTC
Go ahead and fit a duel repping mega with blasters. I double dare ya!
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-08-01 04:22:54 UTC
Yeah.. OP you are so far off the mark it isn't funny..

While I fly Gally most of the time myself (because i like to be at 0) they are not the best.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#7 - 2014-08-01 04:32:25 UTC
Nah. I fly Gallente almost all the time and get my backside handed to me regularly by other racial ships.

Balance comes not only from the ship itself, but also how it's flown.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2014-08-01 04:53:42 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Let's rip this apart, shall we?

David Koen wrote:
It would be ok if they have the dps only advantage but at the same time they also have the best tank. Due to descent amount of mid slots gellente ships can put cap charger and play with two armor repairs.

Gallente may have the best active armor tank, but Amarr have some of the beefiest buffer tanks for armor.

It is the the same way the Minmatar have some of the best active shield tanking ships while Caldari generally excel at buffer shield tanking.

David Koen wrote:
for example T1 frigates where tristan is by far the best T1 frigate and does not have any counters between T1 frigates. Tristan has the highest dps of all T1 frigates. It has 2 turrets and 5 drones. Other T1 frigates have usually 3 turrents, you know 5 drones is much better than 1 additional turret. In terms of speed Tristan is faster than most damage dealing frigates and close to fast kiters like condor.

The highest DPS I can squeeze out of a Tristan is ~230 dps... but that requires you to completely give up tank.
The highest speed I can squeeze out of a Tristan is ~3800 m/sec... but this requires you to reduce your damage to an anemic ~120 dps... in addition to a minimal tank.
The highest tank I can get out of a Tristan is ~7500 ehp... but this pretty much reduces you to only using an AB and using smaller grade turrets... making it difficult to get over 150 dps.

Now... a more well balanced brawling Tristan will only go ~2600 m/sec... deal ~200 dps... and have ~5400 ehp.


In comparison...

- a kiting Condor goes ~3400 m/sec... deals ~75 dps... and has ~4000 ehp. But wait! This is not a good comparison ship! The Tristan is a frontline combat ship... not a attack skirmisher. Let's try a Merlin.
- a "balanced" brawling Merlin goes ~2800 m/sec... deals ~190 dps... and has ~6000 ehp. That is a pretty good match for the Tristan!
- a "balanced" brawling Punisher goes ~2500 m/sec... deal ~130 dps... and has ~6600 ehp. To be fair though, the Punisher does lack the third mid-slot which makes range control a bit of an issue. And its generous powergrid to squeeze on a Nos and repper don't really make up for that in a meta where speed and range control is everything. I guess I can agree that the Punisher still needs a little more OOMPH but I am not sure where (it is not likely to be a mid-slot though).
- The Rifter is just sad compared to any other frigate. This has been known for awhile.


David Koen wrote:
If we look at other gallente ships the situation is the same Comet is the best navy frigate, best pvp cruisers are again Thorax and vexor, best T2 cruiser is Ishtar, best AF is against ishkur and enyo. Everythere except ship design Gallente has best ship stats.

*ahem* The Hookbill and Navy Slicer would like to have a word with you with regards to kiting tactics. And the Firetail would like you to explain how the Comet is faster and more versatile than it is.

The Vexor is highest DPS cruiser, I will give you that... but it is one of the slower cruisers out there too. Rail Thoraxes seem to be quite popular, but Caracals are still more threatening to frigates. I have seen Omens do some pretty amazing things in the right hands (hint: fit it like a Slicer)... Moas are evil ships when supported by logistics...

And the Ishkur, while popular, is not quite as tanky as a Vengence... or as good at taking out Talwars as a Retribution... or as kitey as a rail Harpy or LML Hawk... or as good at instapopping T1 frigates as a Wolf... or just plain ganky as an Enyo.
And the Enyo does have more than a few weaknesses.

David Koen wrote:
Many Amarr ships at the same time have only 2 mid slots, this make them kinda loosers in most pvp situations. Also lasers have too many strong counters like tracking disruptors or energy neutralisers, but drones have no counters.

Note: blasters are weak against the same things.

How did you Veterans start?
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-08-01 04:55:36 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nah. I fly Gallente almost all the time and get my backside handed to me regularly by other racial ships.

Balance comes not only from the ship itself, but also how it's flown.


Of course skills and ship loadout matter a lot, but Gallente provide more choices and better stats than other factions. You can look at fleet setups in the latest alliance tournament http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUgEeufVHU&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLPhkZiTHC3T4s8X6Zmod57E&index=200

The strongest teams mostly use Gallente or pirate ships like rattlesnake which are half gallente by skills. There is no use of full Amar fleet setups especially with lasers. Gallente ships representation in alliance touranmnets is about 60% whilst Amarr doesn't have even 10% representation.
Pj Harvey
Red DUST Industries.
#10 - 2014-08-01 05:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pj Harvey
'fraction' - check

'turrents' - check

'looser' - check

into the trash it goes.
Code Redd
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-08-01 05:08:40 UTC
1. they have the higest dps, and the shirtest range--often 3 times shorter than amarr guns, and only slightly more damage.

2. 'best tank' isnt true, a lot of people prefer the amar resist profiles in their armor. Gallente and amarr use the same reps--and often, amar ships have 1 more low than gallente.

3. the 'extra' mids the gallente have are made up for by not having a low slot. This means they often cant have the tank/resists that amarr can. In pvp, the number of lows matters more than number of mids if you're in a fleet. # of lows determine how long you live due to allowing a buffer.

4--this game IS NOT about every race being 'equal' ... and CCP should NEVER balance it that way. It's about everyone having a strength, and a weakness. they seek balance by trying to give everyone one of those...

... for example, gallente ships often lack the PG to plate their tank, and HAVE to use reppers--in pvp, this is not optimal.
... for example, using drones as your DPS is a terrible idea if you face some one that can kill them (small blasters, other drones, smart bombs)... when facing a tristan, use a dual rep incursus, and pop all the drones while you tackle the tristan--they will soon be unable to hurt you (it's 2 vollys per light drone, 3 if they're highly skilled).
... gallente are outclassed in speed by minmatar, AND often the amarr (who have ships with less initial mass because they're made for plates)

5, i would argue the comet is a great frigate, but the 'best' is likely the navy slicer. 1v1, i would take the slicer in most fights.

6. already addressed why amarr have less mids--they have more lows--therefore more EHP and/or dps mods. Its a fair trade.
...6 a. already addressed the counters for drones. smart bombs, other drones, blasters/autocannons... heck, even speed does just fine.

in closing. 1 they dot need more speed, and if they do, drop some of those plates. lasers are fine, hybrids use cap too. lasers will get better tracking, the day they lose 60% of their range... and meet up with blasters...

try harder next time. or ...

fly gallente. they have no counter. no one's better...
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#12 - 2014-08-01 05:15:33 UTC
Amarr is the best race idk what you're on about.

Oh god.
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-08-01 05:22:48 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nah. I fly Gallente almost all the time and get my backside handed to me regularly by other racial ships.

Balance comes not only from the ship itself, but also how it's flown.


Of course skills and ship loadout matter a lot, but Gallente provide more choices and better stats than other factions. You can look at fleet setups in the latest alliance tournament http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUgEeufVHU&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLPhkZiTHC3T4s8X6Zmod57E&index=200

The strongest teams mostly use Gallente or pirate ships like rattlesnake which are half gallente by skills. There is no use of full Amar fleet setups especially with lasers. Gallente ships representation in alliance touranmnets is about 60% whilst Amarr doesn't have even 10% representation.



Using the PVP tournament as an argument is flawed, since its a special case of environment, you also do not compare offshore fishing and fishing in a fish tank.

The races are pretty balanced to each other, pvp is not all about EHP, dps and self reps, ewar, neuts, logistics and the like also play a huge part.
Amarant'h
Council of Exiles
Brave Collective
#14 - 2014-08-01 05:36:00 UTC
David Koen wrote:
At the current state of the game one faction have much better ships for pvp than others, this faction is Gallente. Gallente has much better pvp ships than others, whilst Amarr has the worst.

Gallente ships in general have the highest dps, they have plenty of drones and almost the same amount of turrets as other fractions. It would be ok if they have the dps only advantage but at the same time they also have the best tank. Due to descent amount of mid slots gellente ships can put cap charger and play with two armor repairs.

This game is about if some ship have best dps it should have not the best speed and tank, but Gallente usually have best dps, tanks, speed and electronic warfare at the same time.

Just look at comparison, for example T1 frigates where tristan is by far the best T1 frigate and does not have any counters between T1 frigates. Tristan has the highest dps of all T1 frigates. It has 2 turrets and 5 drones. Other T1 frigates have usually 3 turrents, you know 5 drones is much better than 1 additional turret. In terms of speed Tristan is faster than most damage dealing frigates and close to fast kiters like condor.

If we look at other gallente ships the situation is the same Comet is the best navy frigate, best pvp cruisers are again Thorax and vexor, best T2 cruiser is Ishtar, best AF is against ishkur and enyo. Everythere except ship design Gallente has best ship stats.

Many Amarr ships at the same time have only 2 mid slots, this make them kinda loosers in most pvp situations. Also lasers have too many strong counters like tracking disruptors or energy neutralisers, but drones have no counters.

Generally speaking Gallente ships needs a global reduction stats, first of all drone bandwidth and amount of turret slots and little bit speed to the same level as other factions.

Amarr ships needs more mid slots and something needs to be done with lasers, like less energy consumption and better tracking. Also would be nice to get more speed to amarr ships.





Nonsense. And by the way, there is no overpowered ships, there is just too much people uncapable of using their brains or not enough skill(points). Every single ship has its weaknesses. Or how do you explain the fact that you see dead Gallente ships around?
Najenna
Caldari Deep Space Ventures
#15 - 2014-08-01 05:58:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Najenna
David Koen wrote:
At the current state of the game one faction have much better ships for pvp than others, this faction is Gallente. Gallente has much better pvp ships than others, whilst Amarr has the worst.

Gallente ships in general have the highest dps, they have plenty of drones and almost the same amount of turrets as other fractions. It would be ok if they have the dps only advantage but at the same time they also have the best tank. Due to descent amount of mid slots gellente ships can put cap charger and play with two armor repairs.

This game is about if some ship have best dps it should have not the best speed and tank, but Gallente usually have best dps, tanks, speed and electronic warfare at the same time.

Just look at comparison, for example T1 frigates where tristan is by far the best T1 frigate and does not have any counters between T1 frigates. Tristan has the highest dps of all T1 frigates. It has 2 turrets and 5 drones. Other T1 frigates have usually 3 turrents, you know 5 drones is much better than 1 additional turret. In terms of speed Tristan is faster than most damage dealing frigates and close to fast kiters like condor.

If we look at other gallente ships the situation is the same Comet is the best navy frigate, best pvp cruisers are again Thorax and vexor, best T2 cruiser is Ishtar, best AF is against ishkur and enyo. Everythere except ship design Gallente has best ship stats.

Many Amarr ships at the same time have only 2 mid slots, this make them kinda loosers in most pvp situations. Also lasers have too many strong counters like tracking disruptors or energy neutralisers, but drones have no counters.

Generally speaking Gallente ships needs a global reduction stats, first of all drone bandwidth and amount of turret slots and little bit speed to the same level as other factions.

Amarr ships needs more mid slots and something needs to be done with lasers, like less energy consumption and better tracking. Also would be nice to get more speed to amarr ships.




I call Troll Bull crap. I can think of ships that aren't Gallente that are better pvping ships. Example - Rifter #1 T1 frigate, Vagabond, Slephnir, Pacifier, Aries, Geddon, Typhoon,ect ect..

But hey what do I know.

I have to stand corrected on the Rifter. Forgive me I am old school and the Rifter used to be king but I guess C.C.P. Put the Minmatar back into little red headed step child status.
mow hawk
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#16 - 2014-08-01 06:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: mow hawk
Yea, the Amarr are terrible at fractions....

and don't get me started on long division.
Altirius Saldiaro
Doomheim
#17 - 2014-08-01 06:06:58 UTC
I assume the OP doesnt fly Malediction or even a torp/neut geddon. Or a fat chicken with full rack of neuts. Or an Arbitrator. There's some mean ships in Amarr.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2014-08-01 06:32:08 UTC
David Koen wrote:
At the current state of the game one faction have much better ships for pvp than others, this faction is Gallente. Gallente has much better pvp ships than others, whilst Amarr has the worst.

Gallente ships in general have the highest dps, they have plenty of drones and almost the same amount of turrets as other fractions. It would be ok if they have the dps only advantage but at the same time they also have the best tank. Due to descent amount of mid slots gellente ships can put cap charger and play with two armor repairs.

This game is about if some ship have best dps it should have not the best speed and tank, but Gallente usually have best dps, tanks, speed and electronic warfare at the same time.

Just look at comparison, for example T1 frigates where tristan is by far the best T1 frigate and does not have any counters between T1 frigates. Tristan has the highest dps of all T1 frigates. It has 2 turrets and 5 drones. Other T1 frigates have usually 3 turrents, you know 5 drones is much better than 1 additional turret. In terms of speed Tristan is faster than most damage dealing frigates and close to fast kiters like condor.

If we look at other gallente ships the situation is the same Comet is the best navy frigate, best pvp cruisers are again Thorax and vexor, best T2 cruiser is Ishtar, best AF is against ishkur and enyo. Everythere except ship design Gallente has best ship stats.

Many Amarr ships at the same time have only 2 mid slots, this make them kinda loosers in most pvp situations. Also lasers have too many strong counters like tracking disruptors or energy neutralisers, but drones have no counters.

Generally speaking Gallente ships needs a global reduction stats, first of all drone bandwidth and amount of turret slots and little bit speed to the same level as other factions.

Amarr ships needs more mid slots and something needs to be done with lasers, like less energy consumption and better tracking. Also would be nice to get more speed to amarr ships.





Do you even play this game?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2014-08-01 09:01:53 UTC
David Koen wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nah. I fly Gallente almost all the time and get my backside handed to me regularly by other racial ships.

Balance comes not only from the ship itself, but also how it's flown.


Of course skills and ship loadout matter a lot, but Gallente provide more choices and better stats than other factions. You can look at fleet setups in the latest alliance tournament http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJUgEeufVHU&list=PLQvKSs1k6DLPhkZiTHC3T4s8X6Zmod57E&index=200

The strongest teams mostly use Gallente or pirate ships like rattlesnake which are half gallente by skills. There is no use of full Amar fleet setups especially with lasers. Gallente ships representation in alliance touranmnets is about 60% whilst Amarr doesn't have even 10% representation.




That had nothing at all to do with the fact that sentries were overpowered monsters at the time...
Grog Aftermath
Doomheim
#20 - 2014-08-01 09:11:31 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nah. I fly Gallente almost all the time and get my backside handed to me regularly by other racial ships.

Balance comes not only from the ship itself, but also how it's flown.



I disagree, you can't balance ships on how they're flown.

Only the ships can be balanced, no such thing as a balanced player.
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