These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Freighters getting killed in lowsec
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-07-15 18:15:05 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Tengu Grib wrote:
00Gambit wrote:
So they're either getting killed when they jump into lowsec on the gate or they're getting killed when they undock and then click warp. Obviously they don't have the reactions to click the dock button when they see a stabber heading at 8km/s towards them...


Often cap pilots see the stabber coming, and panic, then start spamming the dock button. The moment they hit it, they can be targeted, but you still have the redock delay. It's not long, but if the bump hits and pushes you far enough, you could easily be out of docking range before the timer expires. It's obviously worse for some station types based on their docking radius and how it lines up with the undock, but the stations that are bad for it are where most of them die.
The redock delay, aka the session change timer, lasts 10s from undock.

However, you're invulnerable for 30 seconds after undock, if you do nothing else except ctrl-space stop your jf.

So one possible mistake is to try to warp immediately after you undock, yes.

Another mistake would be to 'warp' instead of 'aligning' first. Because if you see a bumper, you can dock while aligning, but you would have to cancel warp first in order to dock if you gave the warp command (hope it's clear lol).


If you undock from a 'good' station, ctrl-space, wait 15-20s, then align to the highsec gate, I assume you should be able to immediately redock if you spot a bumper. Can someone confirm this? I plan to buy a jf myself sometime in the future... :)


That's how I used to do it with my carrier, so I assume JF would work pretty much the same. CRTL+Space is critical.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-07-15 18:20:50 UTC
As someone with a JF alt who hauls for Push (most of the time push's JF rates are better than the other guys BTW, shameless plug) I have lit a lot of cynos. I've jumped in and out of almost every station model in EVE, and even systems without stations. Some are easy. Others are downright scary. But given all of that I've concluded that a JF pilot pretty much has to be very stupid or very unlucky to lose one in LS.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-07-15 18:28:02 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
As someone with a JF alt who hauls for Push (most of the time push's JF rates are better than the other guys BTW, shameless plug) I have lit a lot of cynos. I've jumped in and out of almost every station model in EVE, and even systems without stations. Some are easy. Others are downright scary. But given all of that I've concluded that a JF pilot pretty much has to be very stupid or very unlucky to lose one in LS.


Often both at the same time. You can be stupid for months and just not get caught.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Sheri Angela
#24 - 2014-07-19 04:37:59 UTC
Most folks get rushed trying to get the jump run done and end up making careless mistakes.

There is however just plain bad luck with station bouncing you off at warp 9 despite your best efforts to place the cyno in the perfect spot. Good idea to jump when system is empty and have another cyno pilot in range so if you do bounce one saving grace might be enough time for cap to recharge and jump to alt cyno. Same applies if somebody is trying to bump you off a low sec station or your traversing from low to high by gate and find unwanted pew powers trying to grind on your leg.

TIDI = Increasing profit while decreasing service level to the customer disguised a nicely marketed benefit. What would Amazon have done here.
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-19 06:37:39 UTC
Sheri Angela wrote:
stuff

Dat wording. Lol. Love it.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2014-07-23 03:38:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Derath Ellecon wrote:
As someone with a JF alt who hauls for Push (most of the time push's JF rates are better than the other guys BTW, shameless plug) I have lit a lot of cynos. I've jumped in and out of almost every station model in EVE, and even systems without stations. Some are easy. Others are downright scary. But given all of that I've concluded that a JF pilot pretty much has to be very stupid or very unlucky to lose one in LS.


I’m with Derath Ellecon here. I’ve run freighters and jump freighters without loss for quite some time now, despite being rather stupid myself, living in nullsec, and almost constant being under wardecs from opportunistic hisec gangs.

The key, as far as I am concerned, is care and preparation. Where you have a choice, you should choose the station / outpost so as to provide the greatest docking zone buffer. Cyno-dood location can also be very important, absolutely critical in some station types. Putting a jump off until a system has quietened down a little is often advisable. More recently zerodock bookmarks have become important … freighters can take an awful long time to cover the km or two between the warp landing point and the docking perimeter. Also more recently, I have taken to regularly swapping fittings (nanos and stabs v. bulkheads or cargo expanders) to accommodate circumstances … and at all times carrying a small freight container with alternative fitting modules (along with another container with a disassembled cheetah for other emergency uses).
I’ve had a few nasty structure bumps or other ship bumps, during large coalition deployment jumps, but have never had a hostile actually bump me out of the docking zone. I watch my ‘speedo’ closely and spam the dock button if it looks like I might be structure or ship bumped.
Preparation work, and a webber (3 x faction webs on raiper or huginn), for all JF POS jumps … a pair of bookmarks allowing instawarp into POS by warping from one location to the other at-100km.
I use instawarps mainly in places like Jita to reduce the likelihood of being widely cargo-scanned, but an instawarping freighter/JF usually still gives enough time for a dedicated and lucky cargo scanner on the undock. I play little mindgames when I have potentially gankable load values … like yesterday, undocking from jita 4 4, instawarping away, and then docking up in a different station to go afk the rest of the day and to resume my actual move 6+ hours later. I use a webber alt when I am still worried about my gank potential, and a non-alliance alt for all hisec travel when we are under wardec.

Problems I’ve had (and survived):

  • A huge bump during our recent Syndicate deployment, with hostile neuts at the station. Thankfully lots and lots of carriers and dreads right there being watchful as my nomad crawled back towards the docking perimeter … and a couple of carrier guys swapped to fast ships they were carrying and helped with some bumpage.
  • Jumping to the wrong cyno. More embarrassing than anything else. He was well located on the station, just in the dead opposite direction to what I had intended.
  • Hitting the dock button, going afk, and returning an hour later to find my JF still sitting there outside the lowsec station. Since then I always, always, always wait the few extra seconds to confirm that docking has actually occurred.
  • Warping to a station and finding myself a couple km from the docking perimeter.
  • ‘Landing’ is a random location in destination system because (I think) my cyno finished during my jump. I have also heard of people ‘landing’ in other systems.
  • Undocking JF into a hostile station-camp gang. Just plain ******** but easy enough to dock-up again, just a little shaken.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-07-24 07:17:31 UTC
Isn't it possible to pop the cyno ship while the jump is in progress, causing the JF to land at a random spot in the system?
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-07-24 12:33:07 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Isn't it possible to pop the cyno ship while the jump is in progress, causing the JF to land at a random spot in the system?

Yes
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-07-28 04:48:59 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
100mn cap stable NOMEN can slam into a freighter like a semi truck and send it off the undock, at which point you just keep the bumps up until it is safely off the undock ( usually about 30kms in my book ). then tackle and web and let the guns do the rest of the talking.

Sometimes in low sec you have to think like your in high sec in regards to station games. except you wont get CONCORD intervention just some pesky station guns. ( which barely hurt most well tanked ships )

30 km off the undock? That's way farther than you need to go. These are freighters they have no Mids and so can't fit a prop mod and travel at ~100 m/s at the best of times. 5 km off the undock should be plenty, even if you web it only once and stay out of the way to let it try to get back you still have almost a full minute to kill it. Getting people to help kill one shouldn't be a challenge either so you should easily kill it by then. More bumps and more webs and it should easily get stuck out that far. This is why people don't cyno to the gate in the first place, being 5 km away from the gate is potentially a death sentence.

Both the JFs I've killed have been as a result of a poor cyno pilot hugging a station a little too hard or picking a station that doesn't have a cyno safe docking ring. Often some of the mining outpost stations that are built out of gigantic asteroids have extremely generous docking rings and are often safest, though there are others as well.

If you're ever in doubt undock two ships from a station have one stop on the undock and the other one fly out until you are 10 km from the ship on the undock, now check the station, are you still at zero? If yes, you can fly back in 5 km and light cyno reasonably safely. If no, you are risking a bounce or landing out of the docking ring if you cyno where you are. The farther you can get from the ship on the undock before the station stops being at 0 the safer it will be to light a cyno there because you have to remember the cap ship coming in might be big enough to bounce still due to it's size if it spawns as close as possible to the station, so you want some cushion to work with.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#30 - 2014-07-28 05:34:23 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
JFs are vulnerable in lowsec when they have to make that single stargate jump to highsec.

They need to undock and warp to the highsec gate.

When they start aligning to the gate, they can be bumped out of docking range and murdered.

Insta-undocks don't help them either, because it's easy to quickly probe out their landing point and jump on them while they're still aligning to the gate a few thousand clicks from the station.

Why don't they light a cyno on top of the high sec gate, jump to cyno, jump to high.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#31 - 2014-07-28 10:50:05 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
JFs are vulnerable in lowsec when they have to make that single stargate jump to highsec.

They need to undock and warp to the highsec gate.

When they start aligning to the gate, they can be bumped out of docking range and murdered.

Insta-undocks don't help them either, because it's easy to quickly probe out their landing point and jump on them while they're still aligning to the gate a few thousand clicks from the station.

Why don't they light a cyno on top of the high sec gate, jump to cyno, jump to high.


Too much risking of bouncing off the gate on jump in. If that happens its basicly down to hoping you slow down enough to warp before you get probed and murdered

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#32 - 2014-07-30 16:42:54 UTC
Wow, Nigra. You have done a lot of *stupid* stuff with that freighter and lived. Lol I like the afk for an hour and still alive bit. I approve. Stupidity in eve generates content. Sometimes its just worth it to take stupid risks or play suboptimally if only to laugh about it later. Still amazed you've not lost a freighter despite all those circumstances.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-07-31 03:27:40 UTC
Garresh wrote:
Wow, Nigra. You have done a lot of *stupid* stuff with that freighter and lived. Lol.


lol, I do not really specialise in stoopid ... but it is also not a facility unknown to me.

Several years ago I also autpiloted thru a half dozen lowsec systems, but that was an indie hauler not a freighter ... and it was when a patch induced a glitch into the autopilot facility.

Overall I am pretty careful with a decent understanding of game dynamics. I suspect my TZ helped that not-docked freighter survive. It can be exceedingly quiet for me, especially midweek.

Anyways, if my stoopid things can help others avoid doing similar then I have probably helped a little and so can be happy.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Adolph Weltschmerz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-07-31 12:00:30 UTC
Quick question:

Will it be safer to jump to a safespot in low instead of to a station? It seems unlikely you will get scanned down before you are able to align and warp to gate. Also; if you have web on your cyno ship, will you be able to use it after cyno is lit?

Thanks

A
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-07-31 15:20:35 UTC
Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:
Quick question:

Will it be safer to jump to a safespot in low instead of to a station? It seems unlikely you will get scanned down before you are able to align and warp to gate. Also; if you have web on your cyno ship, will you be able to use it after cyno is lit?

Thanks

A


No to the web on the cyno ship, and I think you might be forgetting that cyno's show up on the overview of everyone in local, so they don't need to scan you down, they can warp directly to you, and land pretty much right on top of you. Even if they couldn't, scanning down freighters is hilariously easy, and with how fast frigates warp now, they would have a point on you long before you finish aligning.

So no, a safe spot is not really a good idea.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-07-31 15:30:56 UTC
To open a cyno on a system not completely empty has always some risk

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Adolph Weltschmerz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-07-31 16:47:55 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Adolph Weltschmerz wrote:
Quick question:

Will it be safer to jump to a safespot in low instead of to a station? It seems unlikely you will get scanned down before you are able to align and warp to gate. Also; if you have web on your cyno ship, will you be able to use it after cyno is lit?

Thanks

A


No to the web on the cyno ship, and I think you might be forgetting that cyno's show up on the overview of everyone in local, so they don't need to scan you down, they can warp directly to you, and land pretty much right on top of you. Even if they couldn't, scanning down freighters is hilariously easy, and with how fast frigates warp now, they would have a point on you long before you finish aligning.

So no, a safe spot is not really a good idea.



Ok. Thanks
Previous page12