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Moved to Null, Month of playing, pls help

Author
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-07-29 04:19:24 UTC
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Yeah, 150 DPS is really low. There are even frigates that can kill things a lot better than your drake so don't rush into such a big ship. You don't need it.


yes but if I take cruiser I will have same damage with missiles if not lower. Only difference that I will have half the EHP right?


Yes, if you go Cruiser, you will drop DPS, because you lose a launcher and the Kinetic Missile damage bonus. However, it is not hard to set up a cheap (in the whole scheme of things) cruiser that can do reasonably well.

Here's a quick for example:

[Caracal, New Setup 1]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Overdrive Injector System II

Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
Large Shield Extender II
Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile


Hobgoblin II x2

350 DPS, not terrible
Relies on a speed tank with this fit, but could replace Extender and Resistance amp with Shield booster and Cap recharger for a few minutes of tank (w/ AB still running)

Not the best overall, but still doable!

Cedric

Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-07-29 07:46:02 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
If you're coming here instead of your corp/alliance for help then I would recommend changing that first off. Sounds like you are in a larger null group that has a lot of big things going on and can't be bothered to help out one of their newer members.


No they can help, and its not even a lot of us, its just they send me fitting, but things like skill order and stuff, I rather ask you guys, maybe even more experiences who have time to write it all nicely like GreenSeed did, which I`m again, extremely grateful :)

Quote:
Easy system to use for any ship - get it to Mastery III before you buy it, get it to Mastery IV for whatever area of eye popping numbers you want out of it. Your Drake is about 1/3 the amount of total dmg it should be doing.

HM and/or HAM to V
HM and/or HAM Specialization to IV
All missile support skills to IV, minimum
Weapon Upgrades to V (for BC IIs)
All the drone skills to IV or V for effective use of T2 drones
Faction ammo minimum
And a bunch of the Core Fitting (engineering, nav) skills to IV, minimum.

With gimped ammo (too cheap to go crazy for EZ sauce L3 farming), my Drake is at 389 DPS. If I cared about eye popping DPS, tweaked it a bit and used Fury ammo or whatever, It could be a good bit higher.

You...need...more....skills.

PS - some folks get down on the Mastery system because some of the reqs are overkill, but as general guides go they do work pretty well, at least at III and IV.


Yeah the thing is, I wanna do PI, exploration, reprocessing also, and I cannot train half a year stuff to 5 or I get bored pretty quickly :D

Quote:

With missile skills that aren't maxed, you won't apply damage, if you really want to use a big ship (I don't advise, use a cruiser) get a Ferox with rails and snipe everything.


Well I don`t have skills on rail, I would need to start learning new skills again and forget missiles. And big ship, well I will be flying raven in a few days so I guess that`s not a good idea :)

Quote:
^^ Nice recruitment post!!

One thing that might be worth considering is dropping your Afterburner. Here's the tradeoff:

W/ AB on, you increase speed, which can help you move faster than Serp Rats can track w/ their guns. You also spend cap and have one extra button to manage (or more, depending on how you approach/orbit etc.

W/ no AB, you lose speed, but can still keep moving to mitigate a bit of the turret damage. The upside is you get another Mid-Slot to help your tank as well as freeing up a bit of cap to run that Tank. You might try something like this:

Heavy Launchers on Highs (best Meta level you can afford/find) loaded w/ Scourge Missiles

Mids:
1 medium shield booster,
1 shield boost amplifier (best meta),
1 kinetic hardener,
1 thermic hardener (both best meta, hopefully T2)
2 capacitor Rechargers (best Meta, look at the info and get the one w/ the best cap regen bonus)

Lows:
3 Ballistic Control Units (best meta, I have fit Multiphasic bolt array I's for this example)
1 Power Diagnostic Unit (best meta, look for shield HP bonus, cap recharge bonus and shield recharge bonus)

As far as Tank goes, based on "Limited" hardeners and minimum skills versus the Serpentis Damage type:
w/ the Large C5-L, you can max at 326 dps tank for 2.5 minutes
w/ the Medium C5-L, you can perma run the booster at 185 dps tank

with arbalest launchers, will net you 192 DPS without drones.
Skills:
Level 3 in the following - Caldari BC, missile Launcher operation, HEavy Missiles, and Warhead Upgrades.
Level 4 with those skills gives 232 dps (no drones, same mods)
Level 5 with those skills gives 278 dps (no drones, same mods)

Putting drones into the mix will help a TON: For Hobgoblin I's
3 drones at the bare minimum skills adds 28 dps (the difference between going from 3 to 4 in almost 4 other skills)
4 drones at the bare minimum adds 37 dps , 5 adds 46 dps (T1)

Increasing the drones skill to 5, and light drone operation to 4 and still using 5 T1 Hobgobs will add 55 dps


A fit like this should (as you train your skills and get good at the belts) give you a nice mix of DPS and Tank.
Adding the drones should help a good bit w/ any scram rats as well.

The above posters are right though. W/ an active tank, the goal is not to constantly have your shield level at 100% forever, its to be able to run your shield booster long enough that you don't get into armor while still being able to apply enough dps to kill the bad guys.

And for some perspective, with my skills and a full T2 setup based on the above scheme: 410 DPS and 304 dps Perma Tank w/ medium T2 shield booster, including 5 T2 hobgobs


Hope this helps!


Thanks mate maybe I try it. Though this is active tank right? I am running passive tank right now. Cannot afford to change the fit to active now :(
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#23 - 2014-07-29 11:41:34 UTC
A general rule for skill training. If you load it in your head - you might as well train it to lvl 3 (bang for the buck)

core skills train to lvl 4 - support skills for gunnery / missiles / armor / shield / drones

pre-reqs for stuff you want - not like you have a choice - train as 'the man' requires

level 5 - puts the polish on stuff you use a lot or supports stuff you really like to do.


Ship skills - the more often you fly it - the more betterer it is to push it to lvl 5. Ship skills give multiple bonus per level, so it's kind of like free extra bonus stuff with every level!


engineering skills make fitting (esp cheaper t2 stuff) so much easier

propulsion skills make every single ship you fly better

cap is life

The above 3 groups make any ship you are in a little better.



Short version..... train everything to 5 (NOW!!!!)
Sinnish Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-07-29 15:37:14 UTC
If you're having a really difficult time maybe fly a venture and mine the juicy null minerals until your Drake is adequately trained. Or bring some corpies with you. Even if you have to split the bounties it could go twice as fast. Plus you can check more belts for officer spawns.
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-29 18:37:27 UTC
Sinnish Saken wrote:
If you're having a really difficult time maybe fly a venture and mine the juicy null minerals until your Drake is adequately trained. Or bring some corpies with you. Even if you have to split the bounties it could go twice as fast. Plus you can check more belts for officer spawns.


Yeah and then again I have nowhere to sell the minerals :D Since everybody in null has hulk and mackinsaw and can mine it himself while im in procurer.
And selling it in hs with that low Arkonor price is not worth it. :(
Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-07-29 21:47:44 UTC
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Yeah the thing is, I wanna do PI, exploration, reprocessing also, and I cannot train half a year stuff to 5 or I get bored pretty quickly :D

You wanted an answer to your Drake DPS question. I answered it.

More skills = more tank, more spank.

I have been skilling this main for 14 months now, and bought my Drake 3 weeks ago. Thing is wih you being in a hurry, your Drake battlecruiser has less DPS than virtually every decently skilled/fitted frigate in the game. You're so much better off dumping that Drake for a while and getting into the tweaked frigate game. You have way more stuff to do, will be doing it better faster, and it's cheaper by a good wide margin.

If hurrying to fun is your thing...frgiates ftw.
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-07-29 22:47:13 UTC
Venjenz Sake wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Yeah the thing is, I wanna do PI, exploration, reprocessing also, and I cannot train half a year stuff to 5 or I get bored pretty quickly :D

You wanted an answer to your Drake DPS question. I answered it.

More skills = more tank, more spank.

I have been skilling this main for 14 months now, and bought my Drake 3 weeks ago. Thing is wih you being in a hurry, your Drake battlecruiser has less DPS than virtually every decently skilled/fitted frigate in the game. You're so much better off dumping that Drake for a while and getting into the tweaked frigate game. You have way more stuff to do, will be doing it better faster, and it's cheaper by a good wide margin.

If hurrying to fun is your thing...frgiates ftw.


:D I think ur right but u know how new players are. Yes I appreciate the response to question. I am getting all the skills to required levels so I boost dps as well as modules.

Btw getting raven in few days :D
Atomeon
Laistera
#28 - 2014-07-29 23:35:38 UTC
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:

Btw getting raven in few days :D


You dont listen to advices do you? :P
Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#29 - 2014-07-29 23:46:56 UTC
You need to train t2 missiles, probably hams or heavys if you want to rat effectively, The passive tank is fine when done right, ask members of your alliance to critique your fit they can offer more specific advice since they can see your fit

Either way T2 missiles is a must

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-07-30 17:14:17 UTC
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
:D I think ur right but u know how new players are. Yes I appreciate the response to question. I am getting all the skills to required levels so I boost dps as well as modules.

Btw getting raven in few days :D

Uhm...how is the negative effect of hurrying into a larger hull fixed by hurrying into an even larger hull?

Just past "Never undock what you aren't willing to see blown up" in the list of EVE commandments is "Being able to sit in a ship isn't the same as being able to fly it."

To that point, I would ask this question: why do you think people lose battleships in L3 missions? More than one person in EVE history has gotten slapped around in an L3, vowed revenege, rushed into a new BS hull, gone back and gotten slapped around even worse than before. When you figure out why that would be, you'll figure out why you should be going to smaller hulls right now, not bigger ones.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2014-07-31 02:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Venjenz Sake wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Yeah the thing is, I wanna do PI, exploration, reprocessing also, and I cannot train half a year stuff to 5 or I get bored pretty quickly :D

You wanted an answer to your Drake DPS question. I answered it.

More skills = more tank, more spank.

I have been skilling this main for 14 months now, and bought my Drake 3 weeks ago. Thing is wih you being in a hurry, your Drake battlecruiser has less DPS than virtually every decently skilled/fitted frigate in the game. You're so much better off dumping that Drake for a while and getting into the tweaked frigate game. You have way more stuff to do, will be doing it better faster, and it's cheaper by a good wide margin.

If hurrying to fun is your thing...frgiates ftw.


:D I think ur right but u know how new players are. Yes I appreciate the response to question. I am getting all the skills to required levels so I boost dps as well as modules.

Btw getting raven in few days :D


That's a bad idea. You're asking for advice and doing the opposite. Staying in the Drake at this point is a stretch... moving up to a battleship ... c'mon man.

You lack the the support skills [the same skills others have advised you to train, fyi] to fly a Raven effectively.
River Maira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-07-31 02:58:21 UTC
Venjenz Sake wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
:D I think ur right but u know how new players are. Yes I appreciate the response to question. I am getting all the skills to required levels so I boost dps as well as modules.

Btw getting raven in few days :D

Uhm...how is the negative effect of hurrying into a larger hull fixed by hurrying into an even larger hull?

Just past "Never undock what you aren't willing to see blown up" in the list of EVE commandments is "Being able to sit in a ship isn't the same as being able to fly it."

To that point, I would ask this question: why do you think people lose battleships in L3 missions? More than one person in EVE history has gotten slapped around in an L3, vowed revenege, rushed into a new BS hull, gone back and gotten slapped around even worse than before. When you figure out why that would be, you'll figure out why you should be going to smaller hulls right now, not bigger ones.



Wait what!?

Losing BS's to lvl 3's? That's not really a thing is it?

I mean sure I've lost some ships in some really dumb ways (and I mean really dumb); but when actually trying??
Wrymn Wrymnn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-07-31 12:56:37 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Venjenz Sake wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
Yeah the thing is, I wanna do PI, exploration, reprocessing also, and I cannot train half a year stuff to 5 or I get bored pretty quickly :D

You wanted an answer to your Drake DPS question. I answered it.

More skills = more tank, more spank.

I have been skilling this main for 14 months now, and bought my Drake 3 weeks ago. Thing is wih you being in a hurry, your Drake battlecruiser has less DPS than virtually every decently skilled/fitted frigate in the game. You're so much better off dumping that Drake for a while and getting into the tweaked frigate game. You have way more stuff to do, will be doing it better faster, and it's cheaper by a good wide margin.

If hurrying to fun is your thing...frgiates ftw.


:D I think ur right but u know how new players are. Yes I appreciate the response to question. I am getting all the skills to required levels so I boost dps as well as modules.

Btw getting raven in few days :D


That's a bad idea. You're asking for advice and doing the opposite. Staying in the Drake at this point is a stretch... moving up to a battleship ... c'mon man.

You lack the the support skills [the same skills others have advised you to train, fyi] to fly a Raven effectively.


I already trained those skills to appropriate level. Every corp/alliance mate says I should get raven NI. I know i dont have super skills for it but I need to make isk with that bs, I won`t make isk with frigate or cruiser.
Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2014-07-31 14:06:03 UTC
River Maira wrote:
Wait what!?

Losing BS's to lvl 3's? That's not really a thing is it?

I mean sure I've lost some ships in some really dumb ways (and I mean really dumb); but when actually trying??

Since I was giving advice to someone struggling to top 150 DPS in a battlecruiser, I made a few assumptions on his skills, and applied those assumptions to a Raven. Put that Raven in any of the L3s that web/scram, hit the triggers, see how it does when it gets tackled and is being pounded by 20 targets that poor battleship/drone skills can't fight back against,.
Venjenz Sake
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-07-31 14:07:42 UTC
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
I won`t make isk with frigate or cruiser.

Wow. Just wow.
Sinnish Saken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-07-31 14:41:34 UTC
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:

I already trained those skills to appropriate level. Every corp/alliance mate says I should get raven NI. I know i dont have super skills for it but I need to make isk with that bs, I won`t make isk with frigate or cruiser.


AWOX incoming.
nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#37 - 2014-07-31 15:16:50 UTC
OP, do yourself a favour and stop training for a drake. You can put alot skillpoints into it, but you won't reach decent dps anyway.

a quick fit for brutix running belts, few days to fit all mods (all are meta here, put t2 if you have skills) and this will have dps that you won't achieve on your drake even with all level 5 skills.

[Brutix, br]

Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
Prototype Armor Thermic Hardener I
Reactive Armor Hardener
Magnetic Vortex Stabilizer I
Magnetic Vortex Stabilizer I
Magnetic Vortex Stabilizer I

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Optical Tracking Computer I
Eutectic Capacitor Charge Array

Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Antimatter Charge M

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I

Hammerhead I x5

(seriously, stop with this drake nonsense)
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#38 - 2014-07-31 16:16:14 UTC
Christopher Mabata wrote:
You need to train t2 missiles, probably hams or heavys if you want to rat effectively, The passive tank is fine when done right, ask members of your alliance to critique your fit they can offer more specific advice since they can see your fit

Either way T2 missiles is a must



T2 and faction ammo are for shooting other players. Standard ammo is for shooting little red plus signs.

What you should do is not listen to 'Mr. Must Do'
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#39 - 2014-07-31 16:29:43 UTC
Venjenz Sake wrote:
Wrymn Wrymnn wrote:
I won`t make isk with frigate or cruiser.

Wow. Just wow.

I've been playing 2 years and I use frigates and cruisers almost exclusively.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#40 - 2014-07-31 18:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
30 days is too soon.
I expect tears and/or rage quit in the near future.


60 day old toon can do the job and have enough isk for the school of hard knocks about to come your way.

If you want to take a Drake into null get all related skills to L3 minimum. Both for the ship and the mods/rigs.
Meta 4 all your mods if you don't have T2. Have enough isk to replace it 3x over. You need a set of T2 light drones!

Run all starter agents and the SOE Epic arc.
Have some basic implants and hardwirings. Nothing fancy.
Spend one week in low sec first.
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