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Bring worm and gila back to reality
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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1 - 2014-07-30 22:22:05 UTC
I'm not sure why ccp made these ships so strong. Perhaps they didn't realize how powerful they would be when combined with the buffs to drones.

In a way they are victim of their own success as no one will fight them unless it's bait.

Why not balance them with the other pirate ships? I don't care whether the buff the other pirate frigs and cruisers or nerf the worm and gila or both. But its pretty lopsided right now.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2014-07-30 22:25:03 UTC
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#3 - 2014-07-30 22:35:47 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?


He did. He feels that they're overpowered because of the drones, mostly in light of the recent drone buffs.

That's not to say I - or anyone - agree with him, but it should answer your question.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#4 - 2014-07-30 22:36:46 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?


I imagine you could check his killboard and find your answer. I'd do it myself were I at home instead of work.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2014-07-30 22:40:59 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?


He did. He feels that they're overpowered because of the drones, mostly in light of the recent drone buffs.

That's not to say I - or anyone - agree with him, but it should answer your question.


~600 DPS isn't even that good though? Ishtars and VNIs can push 800 with just drones, and they're both considerably cheaper.

I'd like to know why he feels the drones are overpowered, at all. There are only two of the damn things anyway.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-07-30 22:50:54 UTC
First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again...
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7 - 2014-07-30 22:59:41 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again...

That's because...

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of teaaaaaaaars... and it mooooves us alllllllll~
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#8 - 2014-07-30 23:20:21 UTC
There are only 2 drones, but they are a bit robust. Each drone from a Worm or Gila hits as hard as several drones from other ships, to the point that effectively there are more than 5 drones worth of damage coming at you, and they don't pop all that much easier than the parent ship.
Valkin Mordirc
#9 - 2014-07-30 23:39:17 UTC
I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.
#DeleteTheWeak
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#10 - 2014-07-30 23:52:12 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

Absolute maximum using T2 and "All V's" is 945 DPS on a Gila, but that is using 2 x Hammerhead II's, 4 x HAM II's with Rage ammo, 3 x DDA II's and a BCU II. It does retain a reasonable tank too.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

Not really, depends on the fit.

Valkin Mordirc wrote:
They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.

That's very true.

Friends
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#11 - 2014-07-31 00:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?


Fair question let me go with the worm. Here is a fit that might not be optimal but its much better than other pirate frigates.

[Worm, Fittings.]
Internal Force Field Array I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster

Rocket Launcher II
Rocket Launcher II
Empty

Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I


Hobgoblin II
Warrior II
Hobgoblin II
Warrior II
Warrior II


321 dps with overheat and you can overheat the rockets for about 3 minutes. Put navy infernos in and it goes down to 306. Drones do 234 in dps so you don't need to worry about kiters too much nor do you need to worrry about tracking because hobs track like crazy (2.178) and orbit well within their optimal. (I looked at trying to td one drone to bring damage down but this looks futile) Without blue pill this tanks 168 with it tanks196. It has 5459 ehp buffer. What pirate frigate comes close?

Sure garmur has a great range advantage if you are into kitey stuff but I doubt I would mess with the warriors coming from a worm. Sure you can try to damp and out range it but that pretty much goes for any frigate. Its not a unique weakness of the worm.

So any pirate ship will fail against it . Nothing has the range flexibility of the light drones as well as the gank and tank. I mean with a daredevil great dps and nice web bonus but you won't have a chance with either rails or blasters. Same with dramiel.

Succubus has a nice ab bonus but its not agile enough to handle the speed, and the tracking of its guns even with the bonus is not great. And eve if it had perfect trackign the gank and tank of the worm far surpass it close or long range. And its susceptable to neuts - oh yeah the worm fit has tank and gank completely immune to neuts.

Your best hope against the worm is you might be able to get away.

Other reasons to think the worm and gila are overpowered. They cost the most in the pirate classes of ships - by close to double. Worm buy order 90 mill gila buy order 311 mill. This is true even though the rattler is selling for cheap and you would think that would mean people getting these guristas ships are just getting gilas and worms!

Plus you can never get a fight in a worm unless its bait.

I am not upset about this because I really don't mind if one ship is overpowered. I was really just wondering if there was a reason these ships are so overpowered.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#12 - 2014-07-31 01:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
First people say they are underpowered, now they say they are overpowered, and then tomorrow they are suddenly underpowered again...

That's because...

It's the ciiiiiiiiiiiircle of teaaaaaaaars... and it mooooves us alllllllll~



Please tell me how any fit from a daredevil, dramiel, succubus or cruror would have a chance of killing the worm fit I posted.


Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.


I don't see how the worm is particularly allergic to neuts. Weapons and tank take no cap. Sure your scram does but thats true of all ships. Succubus and to a much lesser extent the daredevil needs to be careful but I am not sure why you say that of the worm.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#13 - 2014-07-31 02:04:36 UTC
Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#14 - 2014-07-31 02:07:44 UTC
At least the Worm isn't the Whiptail, right?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-07-31 02:20:08 UTC
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#16 - 2014-07-31 02:44:55 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though.



Thats a decent idea specifically for fighting worms but generally I don't like carrying ecm on unbonused ships. But for fighting worms putting two ecm (one for each drone) on a hook bill might be kinda funny.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#17 - 2014-07-31 04:21:10 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Your best bet is to ECM one of their two drones and halve their DPS. Can't do anything about the Worm's tank, though.



Thats a decent idea specifically for fighting worms but generally I don't like carrying ecm on unbonused ships. But for fighting worms putting two ecm (one for each drone) on a hook bill might be kinda funny.


Cling not to bonuses. Limit you, it will.
Naomi Anthar
#18 - 2014-07-31 05:30:39 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Could you elaborate as to how they're overpowered in any way?



In every possible imaginable way, ships without any drawbacks. Overpowering anything around with superior tank , superior dps , superior damage projection, selectible damage types. Overpowering everything around hard.

On top of that nothing counters those ships, even fellow pirate ships look like a joke when you compare to worm and gila.

I'm surprised this comes up so late.

You can just ask those who fly Gila and worm ... even those people can't help but laugh thier ass on this ship !! UNLIMITED !! power compared to competition.
Basically this ship is mass produced alliance tournament level of power ship. (before those new come ...)

Maybe for you - a person that "knows everything" *cough* it is suprising but it was always low sec the place where you use such ships mostly. Namely in plexes etc - and i can tell you that NOONE enters plex of worm - unless tard or maybe in his own worm.

And in low sec those ships are overkill.

For example even TOO STRONG DD - is actually WEAK when you compare it to worm. DPS aint much higher (and only if you go blasters) - damage projection is much worse - especially range. No selectible damage type and on top of that DD does not even have 50% of worms tank to begin with.

And its not that DD is weak - its blantly broken ship , op like hell. Yet somehow it possess some weak spots that you may try to exploit to beat it.
Worm on the other hand ... those weak spots are so far unknown... despite people trying hard to find a hole in its defence or offence ... somehow ship persists, butchers entire gangs of other frigs. Stomps destroyers, assault frigs alike aswell. Not to mention it can take on huge range of cruisers.
Naomi Anthar
#19 - 2014-07-31 05:33:24 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I will say that the Gila and Worm do have great DPS and tanking ability, The Gila being able to get damn near close to 1000dps, and the Worm 350. But is hard to get the fit due to fitting.

However, I would also say that these ships all have a weakness. The Gila is allergic to neuts, and the Worm is medicor/hard to fit properly, but also is allergic to neuts.

They are not OP, but you won't be taking down a faction frig with a Tech 2 AF, mainly because Pirate Faction ships are meant to be better than a AF, at least in a role that the faction frig is suppose to place in.


Alergic to neuts ? HAhahah dude you are joke. How ship with capless defence , capless missile launchers , capless drones is vulnerable to neuts ? Do i miss anything ?

What do you mean it cant move after being neuted out ? Oh hey just like every single ship in this game. So sorry your poor weak gila cant mwd with empty cap ... sure it must be true weakness.

You know what is vulnerable to neuts ? Succubus, daredevil, Phantasm and so on.

Go back to your L4 mission running.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#20 - 2014-07-31 05:48:14 UTC
I've seen a good amount of dead Gila's and Worms. More than one would expect if they were overpowered.

Perhaps the issue is not the drones on the Gila and Worm but how you handle encounters with the ship itself. Given the unpredictability of what you may encounter, you have my sympathies.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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