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Crime & Punishment

 
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Cleared my bounty and being punished for that?

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Tyler Oney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-07-30 16:49:42 UTC


Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:

So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty. 

Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change. 

Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage? 

I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me?
Jur Tissant
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-07-30 16:53:26 UTC
Hmmm. It certainly doesn't seem like an obvious exploit. I think the burden here should be on CCP to ensure that the rules are crystal clear.

However I'm not sure this is the right forum.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2014-07-30 16:59:30 UTC
If CCP leave anybody with a negative wallet it's generally because they're involved in RMT and/or botting. Sometimes innocents get caught up in the process because they inadvertently buy something from a player who sells isk for RL cash.

Petition it via the support ticket mechanism.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#4 - 2014-07-30 17:04:46 UTC
Tyler Oney wrote:
Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:

So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty. 

Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change. 

Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage? 

I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me?
You didn't "intelligently" do anything. You hunted out an item which had been altered in a patch, but had not had it's market price updated. You then proceeded to pelt your alt for your own bounty (something which alone is an obvious exploit, since the reason bounties were changed was to stop that) and you hoped you'd get away with it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tyler Oney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2014-07-30 17:44:18 UTC
Yeah but it was on the regular market tho thats where I got the stuff. So thats why im confused I didnt think it was an exploit seemed smart to me, but to leave me 600 + mil in the hole...thats just low
Tyler Oney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-07-30 17:47:57 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tyler Oney wrote:
Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:

So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty. 

Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change. 

Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage? 

I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me?
You didn't "intelligently" do anything. You hunted out an item which had been altered in a patch, but had not had it's market price updated. You then proceeded to pelt your alt for your own bounty (something which alone is an obvious exploit, since the reason bounties were changed was to stop that) and you hoped you'd get away with it.


I didnt down anything I actually stumbled across the item cause I had some in my items hanger. So no. I didnt hunt anything down just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that.
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-30 18:19:12 UTC
Tyler Oney wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tyler Oney wrote:
Okay so I'm in a mild panic mode. Firstly I'm typing this on my phone so excuse any spelling errors. Secondly heres whats going on:

So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty. 

Well now a GM has taken all the isk leaving me negative like 600mil amd and change. 

Why an I being punished for intelligently using a market inflation to my advantage? 

I'm not sure that what I did was wrong. I thought it was smart? I've already sent an email to ccp i was just curious what you more experienced players know and could maybe shead some light on this for me?
You didn't "intelligently" do anything. You hunted out an item which had been altered in a patch, but had not had it's market price updated. You then proceeded to pelt your alt for your own bounty (something which alone is an obvious exploit, since the reason bounties were changed was to stop that) and you hoped you'd get away with it.


I didnt down anything I actually stumbled across the item cause I had some in my items hanger. So no. I didnt hunt anything down just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there. And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that.



So, let me make sure I have this; You alt-nuked yourself after loading your boat with goods whose value you knew to be unintentionally over-inflated so you could clear your own bounty...which CCP made changes to the bounty system to stop...and you're wondering whether you are being punished for it?

Yes, I see this going places.

Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#8 - 2014-07-30 18:27:15 UTC
Tyler Oney wrote:
just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there.
This was your problem. You took advantage of a bug. That's exploiting. Thanks your lucky stars you didn't get a ban and you just had your isk removed. I also don't believe for a moment that you "stumbled" onto it, but that's beside the point.

Tyler Oney wrote:
And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that.
Of course it is. The bounty is supposed to be at a level that prevents people earning isk by killing their alts. They specifically set out to do that. If suddenly a worthless item is increased in price due to an expansion bug which means you suddenly can make isk from killing your alts and claiming a bounty, that's obviously an exploit. Again, accept that you've been punished without a ban and move on. Don't do it again.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Tyler Oney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-07-30 18:28:25 UTC
Like I said I can see the argument I just wasnt sure. I didnt know that it wasn't okay to do i thought it was like a price change or something that was going to happen. I dont follow the market ever I generally just buy what I want then move on I saw thos and thought it was an opportunity I clearly i was wrong thats all I was trying to clear up. I dont follow market prices or anything
Tyler Oney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2014-07-30 18:30:42 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Tyler Oney wrote:
just took advantage of it because the oportunity was there.
This was your problem. You took advantage of a bug. That's exploiting. Thanks your lucky stars you didn't get a ban and you just had your isk removed. I also don't believe for a moment that you "stumbled" onto it, but that's beside the point.

Tyler Oney wrote:
And no its not an obvious exploit. For the fact that I could usey alt to attack my main anytime and claim bounty. So I disagree with that.
Of course it is. The bounty is supposed to be at a level that prevents people earning isk by killing their alts. They specifically set out to do that. If suddenly a worthless item is increased in price due to an expansion bug which means you suddenly can make isk from killing your alts and claiming a bounty, that's obviously an exploit. Again, accept that you've been punished without a ban and move on. Don't do it again.


I'm not arguing that I get it. Like I just said I didnt know it was because of a big but then again in retrospect I should have known if its to good to be true it usually is lol lesson learned
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-07-30 19:16:49 UTC
The bounty system is bad. Its only use is making carebears cry. Hardly a compelling game mechanic. Now along with making carebears cry, it is apparently easily exploitable when CCP mucks with the market. I can't wait for CCP's announcement on this, "Hey, guys, uh, please don't put expensive things in your ship that didn't cost you very much."

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858
Heroes and Villains.
#12 - 2014-07-30 20:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Boom Boom Longtime
If you notice the neighbour has gone out leaving their back door open and there is a hot fresh pie on the table that doesn't mean that you're entitled to take a slice.

Concord Approved Trader
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-07-30 20:15:23 UTC
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:
If you notice the neighbour has gone out leaving their back door open and there is a hot fresh pie on the table that doesn't mean that you're entitled to take a slice.


You are correct.

If you take just a slice, there is evidence that someone has taken said pie.

If you take the whole pie, leaving no trace, you then can correctly assume the neighbor will determine that the creation of the pie, all the steps involved in cooking said pie, and placement of the pie on the table NEVER REALLY HAPPENED.

OP SUCCESS.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858
Heroes and Villains.
#14 - 2014-07-30 20:21:55 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Boom Boom Longtime wrote:
If you notice the neighbour has gone out leaving their back door open and there is a hot fresh pie on the table that doesn't mean that you're entitled to take a slice.


You are correct.

If you take just a slice, there is evidence that someone has taken said pie.

If you take the whole pie, leaving no trace, you then can correctly assume the neighbor will determine that the creation of the pie, all the steps involved in cooking said pie, and placement of the pie on the table NEVER REALLY HAPPENED.

OP SUCCESS.

In a real scenario i would take a slice.

If it was good i would take the rest of the pie leaving a thank you, "at least i never burgled your house" note as i departed closing the back door behind me to deter other potential intruders.

Concord Approved Trader
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#15 - 2014-07-30 20:23:10 UTC
Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?

You folks really disappoint me.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#16 - 2014-07-30 20:34:17 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?

You folks really disappoint me.



From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way.

Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply.

Apparently CCP took exception to this........

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#17 - 2014-07-30 20:40:35 UTC
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?

You folks really disappoint me.



From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way.

Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply.

Apparently CCP took exception to this........



So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what?

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-07-30 21:03:46 UTC
Tyler Oney wrote:
So I found some items on eve market that were inflated in price cheap to buy and had a really high resale price so I bought a lot of them used an alt to pop the ship so clear put my bounty.
This is unclear.

Are you saying the sell orders were lower price than the buy orders? Because that's impossible.

If not, please explain what you mean by 'cheap to buy' and 'really high resale price'.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-07-30 21:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Sibyyl
Xuixien wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?

You folks really disappoint me.



From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way.

Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply.

Apparently CCP took exception to this........



So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what?

The bounty system's estimate was vastly out of sync with the actual market price of the item. It's a bug.

Edit: OP was obviously fully aware of the bug. He didn't figure it out himself, he read about it somewhere and tried it out himself, and then got his ill-gotten ISK nabbed.

Edit #2: Precise explanation here

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#20 - 2014-07-30 21:14:53 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Xuixien wrote:
Taking advantage of fluctuations in the market = intentionally exploiting bugs now?

You folks really disappoint me.



From what I saw it wasn't a market fluctuation, it was an actual bug affecting the price of certain items (like RAM) in a major way.

Some people (like OP) used this bug to clear out their bounties very very cheaply.

Apparently CCP took exception to this........



So there was a bug which made people post really low buy orders for an item? Or really high sell orders? Or what?

The bounty system's estimate was vastly out of sync with the actual market price of the item. It's a bug.

Edit: OP was obviously fully aware of the bug. He didn't figure it out himself, he read about it somewhere and tried it out himself, and then got his ill-gotten ISK nabbed.

Edit #2: Precise explanation here


You sure showed that OP had malice aforethought!

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
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