Player Features and Ideas Discussion

isn't the real reason that marauders arn't used in pvp simple to figure out solo pvp is all but dead, and a tier 1 battleship with t2 logi support has more Survivability than a marauder in bastion mode and if you not utilizing the bastion mode there you may as well come in a T1 battleship that is 5x cheaper, the bastion mode will just get you killed in pvp your tank might be better you might rep more but when 30+ ships with logi support are hammering away at you your tanks gonna brake and your gonna kill nothing.

It is still a sub par performance. Doable but around max of 700 dps. Woudl be a great role for marauders to be good at that. You can easily make them dish 1500-2k + dps with reduced tracking and that would not create any unbalance in rest of game (becausse they wuodl be ble to hit only 2 things, Structures and other marauders .. )

Enough tank to tank a single dread, like it matters, as soon as you get a dread dropped on them they go up in flames.

The hole idea behind the bastion was being absolutely pointless for anything else and justify the bastion nerfs for being able to semi afk tank pve content. I still would like to see a 2. marauder line-up balanced not around bastion but being a very effective and flexible pve and pvp ship, high speed, high dps and lots of utility like spider tanking support or flawless dps scaling from 0 to 100km with interchangeable sentry sets and room for drone links(Kronos) or in case of the Golem finally a hull that is good with trops. You could also reduce the build cost of the additional hulls to something what is more in the 500-600M area as final price tag, making them more attractive for pvp.

This was my pick on marauders, I did this last year a while before the marauder changes happened, what left me very unsatisfied with multiple marauder 5 chars and me using them a lot before the changes, not so much after them.

http://failheap-challenge.com/showthread.php?13247-Marauders

I can get a vargur to burst tank 30k DPS cold. Highest DPS I've seen from a single dread is 9k. please elaborate.

Do you claim marauders where overpowered back then? If yes, then you are probably the only person in eve, only a few people actually used them, even less of them and really did know what the differences where and where they did outperform pirate/faction counterparts by offering the better tool for the job. They where useful for a few niches and by addressing the actual issues of the hulls had back then instead of slapping bastion on them they are suddenly overpowered? This is hilarious. All it does is to emphasise here strengths they had, fixing the real issues in the design and put them on a price tag where they become a very good alternative compared to faction and pirate BS in PVP, by having a different focus and offering different advantages, not because they are straight better.

In pvp today you see a lot of faction, pirate and T2 hulls for frigs and cruisers, however for BS such a choice and option is not really there atm. All you have is Black Ops that are useful for certain kind of fleets and tactics but fairly niche or the current marauders that rarely see pvp use outside dock or jump range.

Navy Apoc vs Paladin, EHP is fairly equal by the extra low on the Navy Apoc and the higher base armor, projection is a bit better on the Apoc, dps on the Paladin. While the Apoc itself is slightly faster the mwd bonus on the Paladin allows it to utilize the mwd more. Also the paladin matches fairly well the Nightmare, in Tach performance being a real armor counterpart, for a ship that currently got no armor match(the old paladin kind of was, since it could compensate the lack of tracking by overloaded webs at close).

Vindicator vs Kronos, the Vindi does more DPS at point blank and is a bit faster, however the Kronos can move more steady and project the dps both with sentry drones and rails, gearing it more to medium range engagements and more free movement. Basically a real T2 version of the Megathron, that is like the Mega not only good at point blank but very good at up to 150km range in a fleet fight. The hole idea behind the Megathron rebalancing was to make it more flexible at different ranges, while the original Megathron ship type was rolled into the Hyperion.

Vargur vs Mach, Mach is faster, warps faster, got less sig and more shield HP, Vargur with the optimal and tracking bonus pulls ahead in medium range performance with artillery, especially during movement. Mach also does more DPS.

CNR vs Golem, fitted with CMs they nearly perform the same, since the hull will be out of painter optimal with CMs most of the time(utilizing it at long range) it doesn't get so much of a advantage. However the higher speed and the ability to break most standard firewalls with torps make it fairly different at close range.

In my opinion you simply don't understand where marauders where used and what niches the actually had before the bastion changes.

I was never really a fan of the bastion module to begin with. I think a lot of the issue with marauders stems from the bastion module itself. Being tied down to a single location in space is too big of a drawback to outweigh almost any benefit it would grant a sub-capital. The analogy people made when the bastion module was introduced was to dreadnoughts, which is apt. Dreadnoughts, while very powerful in certain circumstances, are very vulnerable because of their siege module, even against sub-capitals. Local reps will never be able to match the power of logistics, especially given the preference of players to fit cap destabilizers in PVP.

In PVE, well, its just overkill. There are so many ships that perform just as well for so much less cost and risk. The immunity to ECM is nice, but isn't really that necessary, given that the best PVE hulls are already resistant to the most annoying types of NPC e-war. Moreover tank is rarely an issue in PVE, and is the least of my concerns when building a ship for anomalies or level 4 missions.

Marauders, battleships, combat battle-cruisers, and a few of the brawling fits need to be looked at. People aren't going to use marauders, or any of the above mentioned ships in PVP for any number of reasons, most of which stems from the hulls themselves. Marauders in particular are limited by their hull size, weapon size, and bastion module. I don't think you'll see them used until something gets changed, and given CCP Rise's reluctance to address the issue and his apparent affection for smaller ship classes (I don't really know that he feels this way, but the growing disparity in combat power between the cruiser and down hulls vs CBCs and battleships certainly make it seem that way) I'm starting to think it's never going to happen.

Personally, I love the solo game in EVE, particularly in PVP. On my PVP alt I do participate in some fleet action, but more often than not, I go it alone. Its a hard, uphill exorcise most of the time, but it can be rewarding too. Something I do like that I've garnered from the bastion module is the idea of trading the ability to receive remote reps, fleet boosts, or command ship boosts for a little extra combat power. Hell, I'd love to see a module that doesn't allow you to join a fleet even. Anything that gives you fair trade-off from the ability to get powerful fleet oriented benefits to a solo oriented player.

Marauders weren't intended to be engaging in "fleet" PvP though. That's pretty clear from pretty much all of the CCP statements concerning their "tierification".

They have some roles that they perform really well in. And some others that they do not. I don't see what's wrong with that.