Wormholes

Updated nebulae please. How hard can this be?

Whilst I can see pros, cons and lots of opinions for allowing jump cloning to and from wormholes.

Does anyone actually object to the idea of swapping clones within a wormhole on a POS mod of some form? ie swapping from an armour clone to a shield clone...

You claim capital escalations is bad game design because they promote a "closed doors mode". Newsflash: this isn't specific to C5/C6 gameplay. Wormholes are collapsed all over the place before sites are run (safe for C1 holes maybe) ... at least by those people who can be bothered to have an orca at hand.

As for escalations allowing groups to grow in quantity and quality of players: I suppose that's working as intended. Consider those 90b shared amongst a larger group of players (let's say 30-50 real players. That's ~2-3b on average, really not that much. Same goes for the isk/h/pilot ... it's really not that much better than certain k-space activities that you can do with just as much safety.

If you want to establish a better balance with regards to risk/reward in wormhole space, buffing C1-C3 holes is certainly better than nerfing escalations into the ground. The former will get fresh people into wormholes while the later will simply make people leave ... it's as simple as that.

The only issue with your comment about system control in other places in New Eden is this:
Hole Control = Gate Camping
'Bubble' Cage = Hell Camping (station)

We don't have to worry about Cynojamming a system for obvious reasons. But other than that, there's very little difference mechanically to how we control a system than in other places. Even in the scenario where pilots are podded back to the same station you're trying to flip given bubbles and sufficient attacker numbers on the station undock there is literally nothing the defender can do. This is why so many 00 pilots have assets station locked in places that they can no longer dock at (something something alts and courier contracts but a separate discussion). Because they literally could not get them out.

So - basically it boils down to:

"Aggressive/defensive structure-based conquest in EVE is a soul-crushing experience regardless of what side you are on or what type of space you are in (barring HS since no bombers, smartbombs on undocks, or capitals)."

Giving wspace the means to death clone back into system (or clone jump at death into a clone in system) doesn't change the fact that if the attacker is prepared (and by your own admission they most likely will be - we were when we did these things in Sky) then nothing functionally changes. Pilots won't undock/float out of shields for a guaranteed loss mail and insta-blap (whether dread or ishtar/domi ball doesn't matter). Pilots also won't hesitate to "deny victory" by SDing everything that they can because there's literally no penalty to doing so since those ships were already lost.

You want hotly contested fights for eviction/home defense? Put pilot/corporation/alliance 'statistics' on the line and generate lossmails for things SD'ed inside of a POS shield. With all of the juicy loot/salvage that might drop from them too. (Might be a good time to ensure that structures like POSes and POS mods drop wrecks/salvage also - since these things can be built inside of POSes themselves now).
If POS is bubbled = killmail goes to pilot(s) with bubbles or corp that anchored bubbles - it would look similar to kills by a tower listing only the corp
IF POS is not bubbled = no killmail - allows zero penalty SDing as there are some legitimate reasons for it that don't need a km

--Al

It'd honestly be fine if they let you do it in a Rorq. Would make the thing actually useful...

implying I read anything in a thread before commenting

ok so going back to your first post

pod express
a) getting instantly back in to your wh terrible idea and more to the point CCP will never buy it.
b) changing clones in a wh I like.

ok capital stuff you mention. you want it so people will farm stuff in there static meaning more people will jump them while they run sites. this can happen already even in your home system closing wh's doesnt help when people roll in to you.
Also the amount of isk you earn running c5 or c6 sites with out cap wave you could almost make more doing lower class wh's, or you could farm hisec incursions for alot better isk and do it all day long in pretty much total safety (and there are already loads of people who do this)

farmers wont be as rich, I dont see the issue here. I dont like farmers and want to gank them but them making more or less isk I'm not worried about cos the more they run sites more chance people can gank them.

tiercide where wh's are defined by there statics where you make the isk. people want there staic for pvp in c5 or c6 and some of the lower class might want it for a mix of pvp and pve. really not sure what your getting at with this.

doubling k162s? I think you mean dynamics here which yeah could be cool but wtf has that to do with cap escalations. unless your assuming everyone will always be running sites in static so more connections?

more people involved sure I guess you will have a second scout to run sites maybe more but they are often alts.

All I see is your making people spend more time on stuff they dont want to do. atleast the bigger groups which is pve.




Ok so the income I'v comparing it to a few things Now lets assume 10 people (less could be less could be alts but lets stick to 10 character) thats 2.8b a day or 280m a character for that you are risking 25b plus or even more if you use extra dreads

compared to c3 where your making 100m a hour and risking a 400m - 500m tengu you can still close your wh's so you only need to worry about incoming wh's (more on this later)

or hisec incruisons where you can make anything from 150m to 300m (these are numbers i have been told and I havent tested them) is a pretty much risk free enviroment and you can do it 24/7

the cap escalations you cant and if you ahd to farm the static which some do (hell people in noho do) the isk drops loads we normally do them in rr tengus as we're terrible at solo them in marauders and thats about 120 to 140m isk pp a hour not much more than a c4 so if you have a static c4 to c6 you can make over 100m a hour meaning the only ones who basically cant keep up with homesite income is people win c5 or c6 and anyone with a c1 and c2 static (which needs increasing)

AS for attacking most people big groups will often try attackingother big groups in site, so not sure what you mean by 95% can't everone normally go after farmers running sites.

so yeah besides the carbear talk (which considering i am spending 3 hours a day doing it on sisi for testing is really ******* depressing). the problem is the lack of opertunity but as others have said this is down more to the fact you can see wh's appear before others even find you, which is something i want to change.

on the



Your assuming people only make the income from sites (which not everyone does) I make all mine from indy as do alot of others. if you stopped cap escalation my personal view is your just going to **** off the peopel who do them.

as for not wanting to do something cos it will mess with my peer group you really don't know me well. If its the right thing to do i'll do it

CSM of our hearts



HS incursions can be limited. If an incursion group gets super butthurt or some group wants some lulz, they can effectively shut down all incursions for however long they decide to keep it up. But, since that rarely happens, it's essentially a free faucet.

One of the selling points of WH escalations should be that you can make good isk without having to deal with the autistic incursion community.

This +1.

Even C1/C2 is more dangerous than any of these activities because of no local while the site payout is absolute garbage. These holes are now used basically for PI and industry (passive income w/ zombie towers) for export to k-space and that is sad.

This.