EVE General Discussion

Most of this doom and gloom goes right out of the window when you consider that there are still original hub zero members based in UF-KKH. I personally lived in that same Stain pipe for many years along with a handful of other Hub Zero refugees. It was challenging, but it was fun. None of us complained that it was too hard, because it wasn't. In fact, it was the most fun I had in the game.

I'm not saying there aren't problems, but the ones you guys keep talking about don't really exist. And say what you want about Aaron, he does have tenacity and enthusiasm for the game.

This is something worth pointing out.

Without the fanfare of HZ, and even this thread, and without anybody trying to make an "official" nullsec hub, people live out there and do pretty much the same stuff as what is done in HZ.

Even strangers who are not blue to each other eventually figure out who is a threat and who is not.

Even that part of Stain I have been to before and convoed in local there, back in 2010, and was told about how they survive. Back then it was being farmed a lot by people who cursed at you in bad English the minute you showed up. (probably making their bots dock up or something)


The only unique things about HZ was the diplomacy around standing and the means to set them, and market seeding - the latter of which takes considerable investment and work more so than that of strangers loosely converging on a region. Were these wrong? I don't know. Frankly I think that enough people operating in an area who can produce for themselves will sell off their surplus, but there are still limitations to what could be offered for a newcomer. Balancing out the market forces and availability there and some of the measures that had to be taken on to deal with it (much to the work and sacrifice of Dracvlad I must add) was harder to figure out than the implications of PVP and assessed risk in space.

I'm not kidding. Market forces can be very powerful. But that power takes some considerable thinking and is logistically challenging.

That is so funny reading that from Jenn A'Side, one of the worst trolls in the forum, well maximum troll, it might surprise you to know that I am a Conservative with a capital C, that thinks the first amendment and second amendment are wonderful clauses and wish that we had them in Europe... As for this thread, I never wanted this thread to exist, but because it was here I had to police it, another major annoyance.

Ignoring the troll from now, and back to Aarons comments, the issue with Aaron and me is because I saw it as being a loose group with people doing the ISK making as they wanted while Aaron kept pushing for people to do belt ratting in AF's and op based mining, most people were doing sites or would head elsewhere if it got too hot, they had no issue at all, they were people used to operating in Stain and many were wealthy, yet Aaron based his reasoning on a moaning guy who left as soon as a single cloaky turned up and a couple of people who were suicidal in terms of their approach and lost ships hand over fist. I knew that most people would not be interested, even though I understood Aarons reasoning at a strategic level and I wanted Aaron to wait until we had a bigger core, I also never agreed in mining ops above ninja mining to get minerals that you needed specifically. It is evident that with a group of eager people doing AF belt ratting we would have been able to break the will of the campers, something that I have already done in sov 0.0.

I did what Aaron talked about numerous times in UF-KKH, in fact many of the tactics he got from me, which is even funnier, however he was trying to sell this to experienced people who already knew how to deal with this stuff their way and had been successful, many of them were much wealthier than Aaron who had hardly any PvP ships and these people were full of ships.

So he is saying I don't agree with him and that I could not change to operate here which is even funnier, that is incorrect, all I was suggesting was that he do it with people that were interested and stop ramming it down the other peoples throats, he would drive them away and make himself look silly, he would not listen, announced it on this thread, kept on pushing, and almost everyday he raised it. In the end it wore me down, I started playing other games as it was getting on my nerves, day after day the same thing, never accepting no, so in the end I said you do it, the real issue between Aaron happened not long after that which I am not going to mention here but a few people know abou the mail I received from Aaron.

And in any case I was not actually bothered about operating at all because my job was to focus the campers on me and he knows I was doing that, I am surprised he has an attack of selective memory in terms of this, I was in the declared capital of Hub Zero, which is why the main loser camped that system and yet my ISK came from two moons and the market, which is why I stayed around there and for a long time it worked, I have operated quite easily in 0.0 and continued to operate when I felt like it, so what Aaron is saying here is rubbish, my play style was based on the job I was doing which was a focal point for the campers.

I had no issue with people going to other areas or hisec, the attitude was that the campers would have no targets, personally I thought they were bored with Eve and the sooner they had no targets the sooner they would de-sub.

So Aaron stop kidding yourself, I don't understand why you cannot remember that my job was to sit in 6Y and be a magnet for them, and in any case it was when you told MrGronk in local that you were operating in other systems that he then did his multiple account special and camped all the systems, if you had kept quiet then he most probably would not have clocked it.

My issue with the cloaky camping is that having come across it multiple times, and seeing how destructive it is to the game in making people not play, I think its lame, I have killed many cloaky campers in my time but I am bored with it, so there you go.

That's your problem, everything is a troll or someone else's fault. Look at your post, a wall of useless defensive text.

A real leader looks inward for fault, not outwards for blame. you are your own worst enemy, and you are always in a conflict (with trhe entire rest of the world, not just Aaron) because you try so hard for it to "not be Drac's fault". This is one of the many reasons why your venture keeps failing or just sputtering along.

A good example is you talk about cloaky camping. What should cloaky camping matter in space where you have access to MISSIONs (from which you can acquire isk and faction/deadspace 'trade goods' with which to trade with high sec for finished goods and 'war material'). For a cloaky camper to catch a mission runner he's have to deploy probes that you can see on D-scan, giving you time to get out (thus protecting your mission site).

Hell, you could use set your miners to mining n missions and just GTFO when cloaky camper guy probes. Or you can kill him by setting cans /noob ships in the gates and Tornado blap him when he comes into the mission making him at least have to reship.

I mean seriously, how can you screw up NPC space?

By blaming the game for your faults, that's how. If you spent half the time analyzing your mistakes as you do typing this crap, blaming others and calling people trolls you'd be at the head of a movement so powerful Mittani would be sicking his GIA goons after you. But you don't , so you aren't.

Why do you want the thread locked?

Drac, don't try to deny we had a problem replacing losses, we did large scale ops and we lost some ships which we found difficult to replace. My assault frigate ratting idea was a simple and straight forward way of creating large amounts of isk for a community to use for pvp. I dont get your reasoniing drac, why on earth wouldn't you want to do group mining and churn out a battleship every half hour or so? I made it crystal clear on the initial post that it would be important for us to work as a team, what kind of team work did you think I meant? In my opinion pvp isn't just about calling primarys it is also about having the foresight to see there would have to be a plan in place to replenish losses.



You simply didn't have a "hive" mentality towards this.



And you tell me I don't know how to follow...



I knew full well what you were doing drac and I simply didn't agree. I think your playstyle ended up stressing you out because you put lots of effort into players that are mostly afk. Is it wrong of me to suggest that you put your efforts elsewhere?



Again, too much effort put into people who aren't even there.

quote=Dracvlad

So Aaron stop kidding yourself, I don't understand why you cannot remember that my job was to sit in 6Y and be a magnet for them, and in any case it was when you told MrGronk in local that you were operating in other systems that he then did his multiple account special and camped all the systems, if you had kept quiet then he most probably would not have clocked it.



Your job which i knew would be a waste of time and part of the reason why you are de-subbing.

quote=Dracvlad

My issue with the cloaky camping is that having come across it multiple times, and seeing how destructive it is to the game in making people not play, I think its lame, I have killed many cloaky campers in my time but I am bored with it, so there you go.



I don't see it as destructive at all, we still had options, I strongly believe that someone else's tactics can only be destructive to you if you let it.

Ah sorry to hear about your rig, I wasn't trying to attack you I just had comments about your play style.

Yes, do take care old friend.

mind warfare best warfare

Here you go Drac, now you don't have to fight with Aaron because Cloaky campers don;t matter anymore!

[Typhoon, screw U AFKguy Sansha Space]
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Warp Core Stabilizer I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
'Cetus' ECM Shockwave I
EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I

'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Mjolnir Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile I
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Drone Speed Augmentor I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Gecko x1
Berserker II x1
Valkyrie II x2
Warrior II x1


What I use in sansha space now, LOL at the afk guy, unless it's an Arazu with a long Fed navy scram AND a warp disruptor (or you don't pay attentuion and let a dictor with a scram land on you), you're totally ok. 200 mil total.

Thread closed.