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Making Policies Clear : TOS and Third Party Policy

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Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#41 - 2014-07-29 13:13:05 UTC
You know what, I give up. Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2014-07-29 13:16:52 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
You know what, I give up. Never argue with idiots, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

And yet you failed to beat us in spite of your obvious vast experience at idiocy. I suppose we should thank you for not dragging us down to that level and instead accepting that no, the dev statement does not contradict the 3PP and the 3PP does either of those contradict the ToS.

In every case, the statement is the same: it is not allowed, but they will use their discretion in handing out warnings and bans.
CCP Falcon
#43 - 2014-07-29 13:41:59 UTC
TL;DR?

Don't RMT, or the GM Team will spank you. Use best judgement and don't be dumb.

Long version?

Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.

We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.

It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies.

You guys are far too creative and way too clever for us to have a black and white, do or die policy. There needs to be some flexibility when dealing with edge cases and oddball situations that come up.


CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#44 - 2014-07-29 13:45:52 UTC
If I buy a beer in RL for somebody who gave me ISK in game when I had wallet hiccup... hmm, one can only wonder: how will Falcon know? :)

Invalid signature format
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#45 - 2014-07-29 13:47:40 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
TL;DR?

Don't RMT, or the GM Team will spank you. Use best judgement and don't be dumb.

Long version?

Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.

We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.

It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies.

You guys are far too creative and way too clever for us to have a black and white, do or die policy. There needs to be some flexibility when dealing with edge cases and oddball situations that come up.



Thanks for the response. Could you comment on whether cache scraping is allowed or not?
Lister Dax
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-07-29 13:51:46 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
TL;DR?

Don't RMT, or the GM Team will spank you. Use best judgement and don't be dumb.

Long version?

Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.

We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.

It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies.

You guys are far too creative and way too clever for us to have a black and white, do or die policy. There needs to be some flexibility when dealing with edge cases and oddball situations that come up.



Thanks for the response. Could you comment on whether cache scraping is allowed or not?


I would imagine it's along the same lines as the statement on RMTing.
Anthar Thebess
#47 - 2014-07-29 13:58:50 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
TL;DR?

Don't RMT, or the GM Team will spank you. Use best judgement and don't be dumb.

Long version?

Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.

We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.

It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies.

You guys are far too creative and way too clever for us to have a black and white, do or die policy. There needs to be some flexibility when dealing with edge cases and oddball situations that come up.



Thank you for your answer.
Can you post this somewhere and have it pinned , so people will not have to search and base on post from few years ago?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Lan Wang
African Atomic.
Dreadnought Diplomacy.
#48 - 2014-07-29 14:41:37 UTC
does that satisfy you enough now to stop you trying to sabotage everyone elses businesses by crying RMT

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lucky James Keefe
LUCKY Corp
#49 - 2014-08-15 23:43:29 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
If I buy a beer in RL for somebody who gave me ISK in game when I had wallet hiccup... hmm, one can only wonder: how will Falcon know? :)

so is it ok to buy stuff for cash? As opposed to selling? I suppose that makes the whore the evil person. I mean CCP gets their money anyway what's the diff? I am thinkin they are trying to do their part to prevent money laundering and terrorist financial support networks. Well try this , I have some money and I am trying to play a for money game, with money. sheesh. Take my money but at least have the good grace to stay out of my pockets...
Lucky James Keefe
LUCKY Corp
#50 - 2014-08-15 23:47:22 UTC
Lucky James Keefe wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
If I buy a beer in RL for somebody who gave me ISK in game when I had wallet hiccup... hmm, one can only wonder: how will Falcon know? :)

so is it ok to buy stuff for cash? As opposed to selling? I suppose that makes the ***** the evil person. I mean CCP gets their money anyway what's the diff? I am thinkin they are trying to do their part to prevent money laundering and terrorist financial support networks. Well try this , I have some money and I am trying to play a for money game, with money. sheesh. Take my money but at least have the good grace to stay out of my pockets...

those asterisks are not mine and are hiding an alternate word for a lady of the night...
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#51 - 2014-08-16 00:10:18 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
:popcorn:

Lots of Lol.

Remove standings and insurance.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#52 - 2014-08-16 02:19:25 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
TL;DR?

...GM Team will spank you...



Some of the people around here will need 2 spankings because they'll enjoy the first one.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2014-08-16 03:20:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
This ought to be good. The last time they attempted to clarify the terms of service we were told that you can be banned for impersonating yourself.

I predict a lock, and you being told to file a ticket for it but to never tell anyone what the answer was.


I am here impersonating myself!

Come at me CCP.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#54 - 2014-08-16 03:38:56 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
TL;DR?

Don't RMT, or the GM Team will spank you. Use best judgement and don't be dumb.

Long version?

Trading your in game stuff or ISK for out of game currency or services is bad, and the GM Team will spank you.

We make exceptions for this, such as people paying for killboard hosting, or commissioning other players for forum signatures or artwork, because these are services that are directly related to EVE Online and are something that enriches both the game and community.

It's a solid rule, but CCP will always use our own judgement and discretion on a case by case basis, the same as with every other aspect of our policies.

You guys are far too creative and way too clever for us to have a black and white, do or die policy. There needs to be some flexibility when dealing with edge cases and oddball situations that come up.



so then its ok to buy my brothers vote for a plex?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2014-08-16 05:12:57 UTC
Derrick Miles wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Tell me how this quote from the Third Party Policies:
Quote:
Now that we have made our intent and policy clear, we may, in our sole discretion, deliver appropriate penalties for players that engage in cache scraping after 15 April 2013 (including temporary or permanent bans).

isn't wrong.

In what way is it wrong?

Stating that cache scraping is not permitted and is a bannable offense doesn't strike you as wrong? You know that cache scraping is currently allowed?


Pay attention, and read the WHOLE thing, including the words, "in our sole discretion". Don't just interpret it the way you want to in order to create a manufactured controversy, ignoring important parts of the clause.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Derrick Miles
Death Rabbit Ky Oneida
#56 - 2014-08-16 05:22:34 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
...


Pay attention, and read the WHOLE thing, including the words, "in our sole discretion". Don't just interpret it the way you want to in order to create a manufactured controversy, ignoring important parts of the clause.

Gee, thanks for resurrecting this one.

Let me boil it down for you. CCP's third party policies says that cache scraping is not allowed and CCP Peligro says they won't do anything about it if you are cache scraping.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#57 - 2014-08-16 07:01:34 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
If I buy a beer in RL for somebody who gave me ISK in game when I had wallet hiccup... hmm, one can only wonder: how will Falcon know? :)


By doing that very loudly during a fanfest pub crawl ?
Aineko Macx
#58 - 2014-08-16 09:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aineko Macx
Tippia wrote:
Derrick Miles wrote:
Stating that cache scraping is not permitted and is a bannable offense doesn't strike you as wrong?

No. As the rule says they may at their sole discretion deliver appropriate penalties.
Just because they're using their discretion until proper CREST methods have been put in place does not mean it is allowed or that the policy is wrong.

Quote:
You know that cache scraping is currently allowed?
Do you have a source for this?

When Entity started the Reverence project, he asked CCP if cache scraping was allowed and they greenlighted it. In this blogpost theres a quote of Entity stating that his code was reviewed by CCP and here is another CCP post blessing cache scraping. Later claiming that it has always been prohibited is unprofessional of CCP, at least.

CREST now has price data, but it is largely useless, for several reasons:
- They are globaly averaged values with a large moving window that deviate significantly from what you see in the market hubs
- No info on volume, transactions, spread, or actual orders. Without this, you can't even near to estimate what realistic sell or buy prices are.

The only utility they bring is that they are required to compute the install cost of industrial activities.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#59 - 2014-08-16 22:30:00 UTC
Was it really necessary to necro this thread? Straight

Aineko Macx wrote:

When Entity started the Reverence project, he asked CCP if cache scraping was allowed and they greenlighted it. In this blogpost theres a quote of Entity stating that his code was reviewed by CCP and here is another CCP post blessing cache scraping. Later claiming that it has always been prohibited is unprofessional of CCP, at least.
No, it's not. Policies change, especially in response to developments in how far those policies are being stretched. They communicated this change very loudly, publicly, and clearly. “Unprofessional” would have been to ignore the stretching and/or to not communicate anything.

And those posts and the references within them are all months or even years older than the revised policy, so they certainly don't show that it is currently allowed.
Serene Repose
#60 - 2014-08-17 03:40:07 UTC
Enforceable? If my "mate" washes my car for ISK, how the hell would anyone know?
"Laws that aren't enforceable make ridiculous a judicial system." - Some Smart Guy -

It's rather dumb, actually, to forgo cash payment for ISK when some of that cash can buy PLEX.
The rest of it can buy a six pack of beer and other amenities. *spliff*

(Posting on yet another ridiculous GD thread. MA! Call the fire department! They may be bored!)

We must accommodate the idiocracy.