Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is the best forum post about SOV. CCP make it happen.

It would be dangerous but tbh no Alliance leader would allow thier SC or Titan pilots to dock up and log off. Docking option would only be worth it for the ease of refueling/fitting/insurance/clone upgrades and then getting out to a pos. If a ACS was ever lost with SC ot Titans in it the Alliance would laugh at the pilots and kick them for being stupid.
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Hey, don't get me wrong, the sov grind is boring and I'm not a fan. So the loss of that is a Good Thing™.



Like I indicated, not sure I like the idea...kind of schizophrenic about it. Sometimes I think, "Yeah awesome, things would be in considerable flux, an invader could move into the region easily with free ports...could be great."

Then I think, "Man Goons have a good system in place to just have most CFC member alliances drop an Alliance Capital Station in their region and keep chugging right along." Of course, things wouldn't be quite as daunting in terms of attacking the CFC since instead of hundreds of TCUs and IHUBs you'd have a handful.

So I thought I'd ask the question, see what your answer is and get some discussion going. Manny's thread has good discussion and I figured the more discussion the better.

Edit: BTW, not slamming Goons either with the above. My point is that the Goons have a good network of people and they don't mind helping their allies figure **** out. I guess my concern is...could we be setting the stage to turn null sec into a collection of CFC like organizations?

Because huge battles have to be fought for something. And what SOV does is it forces (or tempts) you to have some assets which can be locked and seized by your enemy, and which you can't simply throw into your trunk and run away (well, in fact it allow for it atm, would be great if such thing would be made more hard to pull). So it's serves as content generator. The problem is its mechanics are very much flawed in so many ways.

And for totally free and outlaw space you already have NPC nulls and wormholes. They are exaclty look like what you were trying to describe.

the problem with the mere concept of SOV is that its about controlling people . .taxing them and using them as a resource ..

it doesn't really apply too 0.0 in its current format ... so 2 options are available
- add people as a resource in 0.0 (capsuleers don't count) there more like soldiers/partners in crime
- or remove SOV .. maybe add a system of chiefdom's or something

I see what you are trying to say but with the three cycle timers to the stations etc. you can actually get your stuff out with little problem. Flip side of it is the timer creates "the blob" to form like what CFC did to Nulli in 0-W for a week where The Martini ordered his monkeys to camp the station so they could "Dead Zone" it, and Nulli not only evac'ed most of their stuff before the station flipped, but they got it back a month later so risking your assets under current SOV mechanics isn't much of a risk unless your on vacation.

Not sure that the driver of "content" and fighting over something should be to save the **** in your hanger. I think it should be to defend the space your living in and that should be enough tbh. If you can't then you should move to another place you can. Maybe that's why NPC and WH space works so well and SOV Null Sec is a slab of concrete.

I think dropping ACS's in Region after Region if the CFC wants to do it would be fine. If they have the isk to do it and the man power to defend it then god bless. The exposure to that tactic is that the space surrounding it and its stations are accessible to anyone and so the Alliance "owning" the Region actually needs to farm/police/and defend the space to get the maximum use out of it or anyone can farm their fields while they are logged off for weeks playing Tanks or Dota and other **** that these AFK Alliances do with all this empty space they control behind locked and abandoned stations, millions of HP, and weeks of timers.

While you aren't playing EVE others could be and they could be making isk because you're to lazy to log in and form a defense fleet, BLOPs fleet, or hot drop of any kind.

I'll post some of my ideas that I had while discussing options in Mannys thread so you can see where I think this could go in relation to what it would take to control a region with a ACS and the associated commitments:

But where is my Alliance name on the EVE map!!! Alliance Capital Stations (ACS) - Each Alliance can launch only one “Capital Station”. When you anchor the ACS you have to name it and the name can never be changed unless Alliance is disbanded (ownership drops) or it’s destroyed and a new one put up. I see these as the “Castle Blacks” or PL’s “The Sphere” stronghold of EVE driving the narrative and actual history for the future books and stories of EVE to come.

Obviously the current size of some Alliances could be too big for pilots to use just one Region or they want to “own” two or more Regions. Welp they’d need to develop new Alliances and CEOs to drop Alliance Cap Stations in more Regions and this would add stress to the power dynamic and diplomatic scene that EVE needs so much. New Alliance leaders would actually matter a lot more than they do these days and when directors decide to press the "button" on an Alliance Cap Station it could be a little more interesting than just mopping up SOV structures with Super fleets. Anyways, this stacks the house of cards a lot higher which creates content.

It takes an Alliance to up keep it….they take fuel, ammo, food, dancers, janitors, cows, booze, drugs, etc. to operate/maintain…or it goes off line. It takes the ACS Construction Skill book, ACS Station Management Skill Book, BPO, and construction costs which could rival that of what it currently costs to build a Titan. ACS Upgrade Mod Construction Skill Books and BPOs, ACS Regional Embassy Upgrade Mod Construction Skill Books and BPOs, Upgrade Mod Construction costs, and the cost to up keep the ACS would provide the significant isk sinks and industrial activity needed, just like current sov bills do. It might take a little while to actually see many of these out there in null sec but talk about an Alliance goal to be achieved and the pride pilots would have once they got one up.

ACS Regional Embassy Station Upgrade Mods could be fitted to provide bonuses to all open stations in your Region selected as Embassy’s and POS’s anchored in the Region for specific things which would draw players to your Region because others don’t have that Mod fitted to their ACS. Bonuses are based on your standings with the ACS owner. Your ACS has a SC construction Upgrade fitted? Well guess where all the SC builders could headed with their CSAAs and POS’s…. Maybe you can only fit 4 on your ACS so your Region could be pretty well known for select bonuses.

Embassy’s – (Its already going on so why not make it official) An Alliance holding a Region with a ACS, can secure an “Embassy” in a Regional station or outpost in each of the Constellations within the Region held. The additional benefits aside from what the ACS supplies an Embassy can be decided as this mechanics are hammered out. Maybe some sort of benefits to anyone using the station for trade, industry, or whatever which in turn allows the Alliance to tax the goings on in that station etc.

The ACS is destructible. Mechanics of how it’s destructible, timers…..yes I said “timers”, and what drops is something CCP/Players can toy with. If we’re going to have timers we should probably have them on **** that matters like POS’s and these things. These could be your B-R situations of the future. Hire PL to attack of defend one of these things.

If the Region has an Alliance Cap Station, new comers to the area could negotiate special "SOV" standings with the owner which would allow them to anchor specific system upgrades the ACS doesn’t provide or they can simply ninja live without the standings and upgrades if they don't want to be under the rental "thumb" of any Alliance and are willing to take the risk living there. Maybe the levels of “SOV” standings do things like expand the docking radius of the Regions open stations and outposts to those with them adding a layer of protection.

BTW - Updated OP Title based on our discussion

[Snipped to save space, links refer back the posts in questions....]

I pretty much agree. I like the idea of people having to use and defend their space. People using their space have another name, "targets". And people going after such targets also become targets as well. So the idea of getting people out of stations, and doing stuff to draw in hostiles and in turn provide something for a "defense fleet" to do is all good.

Just not sure changing sov can do it all. After all, Manny's thread is about power projection and how it enervates Eve. I think there is some truth to that.

At the same time having dozens if not hundreds of TCUs, IHUBs and stations to grind through may very well also be part of the problem.

Not to mention the fact that doing stuff in null is not all that appealing. The current patch/update goes some ways towards addressing that, but will it go far enough? TBH, IDK. Seems like a multi-pronged approach is needed here. Make sov less of a huge freaking monster task, address the issue of certain ships bouncing around the known galaxy obliterating everything other than a similar fleet, and make doing stuff in null worth while.

From your OP:



Can you go into why you think this might result? After all, one thing your change is intending to bring about is greater uncertainty to null. But most business people don't like uncertainty.

BTW, love the discussions, lets keep it civil and constructing please (which it has been so far, I'd just like CCP to watch this thread and read it and maybe...seriously consider some of the ideas brought up here).

What is this nonsense?

1) Because it ******* sucks.

2) It reflects nothing in the real world. I'm pretty sure a city doesn't just go into "reinforce mode" and become invulnerable after a couple buildings have been destroyed.

3) Small forces in the real world (like spec ops guys) are capable of impacting a nation / battlefield just as much as a large conventional force. This is not the case in Eve.

4) No, there is a complete lack of competition for resources because small forces can not impact the massive coalitions. So, carebears simply join the coalition and pay ISK for access to said resources. Which is ****. These guys arguably face less risk than hi sec miners.

5) FW fights are probably more important than the crap that happens in null sec most of the time.... which lately has been nothing. Your lack of knowledge regarding FW tactics is, well, hilarious. A lot of fights and campaigns well thought out. Some are not. Just because they are fast paced does not make them "kiddish."

Everything about Sov other than sovereignty per se is ****.

If stations are open to anyone who wants to dock and, assuming jump drives don't get "Manny’d", then you would have traders jumping goods out to these stations to sell from Empire, Low Sec, and other Allainces next door to the one thats there. You would have players, corps, Alliances who are ninja living out there where they can, selling/manufacturing stuff they get or mine out in the space they find to use.

Most stations don’t have anything of worth for sale because it’s not the designated Alliance/Corp station for the Alliance/Corps holding that Region. So there are hundreds of stations out there collecting space dust. Open them up and you will not only see Empire Traders and even 0.0 manufactures spreading there goods around, but you will see the Alts of many players in the Alliance holding the region bringing stuff out to sell at these stations if its beneficial and their Alliance m8's don’t know etc.

Big Alliances typically have a group of people who “protect their turf” and will bully players that try to sell items that they make most of their isk on. The groups are very “clicky” and don’t allow anyone to get into them as they feed off the players that are their “friends” especially in times of war. Well it would be tough for them to control the Regional market their Alliance m8’s depend on if there were a few other stations out there selling their strategic goods through alts of the players they won’t let sell in their main station etc.

The other side of that is you could end up with trade wars going on where Alts from one CFC Alliance trys selling goods in a station close to another CFC Allainces trade hub and gets caught sparkign conflict etc.

Opening up the stations is one thing, developing the area with new Mission Agents, Cosmos Complexes, and other isk making opportunities that will draw players in is the other half of the equation.